Cryptozoology and Cryptids

[Spectrospecs]

Cryptozoology, literally the study of hidden animals, is the search for animals whose existence has not been proven. This includes sightings of animals thought to be extinct, animals that lack physical evidence but have been sighted or reported, or animals drastically outside of their normal habitats. It is not an official branch of science, but many people regard it as official.
There is a large debate whether or not "cryptids", or the animals studied in cryptozoology, actually exist. Such animals include Bigfoot, Loch Ness Monster (Nessie), Chupacabra, Thylacine, Ogopogo, and the like. Opinion is very divided - a large number of people vehemently defend their existence, while an equally large group totally dismiss such claims. There are animals once dismissed as Cryptids that are scientifically recognized animals today- the Okapi, Mountain Gorilla, Coelacanth, and Giant Squid among them.
What I would like to know is, how do the people of Magistream feel about cryptids, and cryptozoology? Do you think cryptids exist? Have you ever seen one? Do you think Cryptozoology is too far-fetched to ever be considered a true science?

Basic Info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cryptozoology
Lists of creatures and descriptions: http://www.newanimal.org/

[sherepta1]

Idk. I think I saw a ghost once. I was in my room, sleeping, and when I woke up, (at like 12:00) someone was standing there. Five seconds later, the person disappeared.

[TxCat]

Please read the rules for this forum before posting here and take the time to actually read the thread contents. A higher standard for posting exists here. You cannot use chatspeak or slang and you have to provide more than casual commentary (at least a paragraph). You should also address the post contents. This thread is NOT about ghosts or the paranormal. That thread is HERE. I believe the OP is looking for a more scientific discussion of these animals.

[Batty]

Unlike most cryptids, the thylacine was a real animal. The Tasmanian Government listed the thylacine as a protected species on 10 July 1936. The very last thylacine died in captivity on 7 September 1936.

I want so very much for thylacines to not be extinct, but I know in my heart they are gone. Even so, when I visit Tasmania I always set up my camera mounted on the dash board. Just In Case, because You Never Know.

Other well know Australian cryptids are bunyips and yowies. There is a lot of evidence of yowies; foot prints, recordings of strange calls in the dark -- very much the same as the evidence for Bigfoot. Of bunyips, there are just legends.

The local Wiradjuri and Kamilaroi people talk of The Hairy Man, who wanders the banks of rivers at night. Another legend, of course.

OR IS HE?

[Ravenari]

What I would like to know is, how do the people of Magistream feel about cryptids, and cryptozoology? Do you think cryptids exist?

I don't think Cryptozoology is a true science (as Temperance Brennan says; it involves starting with the conclusion and working backwards speculatively and often irrationally from there, which is not what science is!), but I do think it's an interesting field of study.

I do believe, personally, that some cryptids exist. And I'm personally quite interested in Australian legends of bunyips, yowies, and of course the 'giant cats' (which are thought to be released wild leopards or cougars, or large evolved feral cats out in the bushland). Also, in Australia, it's so vast and empty here that a lot of animals declared 'extinct' have often been re-found 50 years later. This indicates a kind of vastness which could definitely hide a lot of cryptids.

[TNHawke]

I don't think Cryptozoology is a true science (as Temperance Brennan says; it involves starting with the conclusion and working backwards speculatively and often irrationally from there, which is not what science is!), but I do think it's an interesting field of study.

I have to disagree with you there. All science works from a hypothesis and a null hypothesis. The purpose of the research is to prove one and disprove the other. The hypothesis that a cryptozoologist is working from "this creature exists" and the null is "this creature does not exist". They continue to search for and gather evidence that supports their hypothesis that it does exist.

Also, in Australia, it's so vast and empty here that a lot of animals declared 'extinct' have often been re-found 50 years later..

Could you back this up with some verified creatures that were found and links to info on them?

[Ravenari]

Could you back this up with some verified creatures that were found and links to info on them?

Absolutely, here's just a few creatures that were presumed extinct and then found:

Night Parrot - in 1989 Australian Geographic offered $50,000 for 'proof' that the bird still existed, as it had not been adequately confirmed or sighted since Gould's description in 1861. It wasn't until 1990 that 'proof' was provided by two people who spotted a desiccated sample on the side of a road.

Noisy Scrub-Bird - A couple of 'doubtful nesting records' in 1890 (after one had been shot in 1889), but no confirmed sightings for 6 decades. Not fully rediscovered and confirmed until 1961.

Australian Dibbler - Presumed extinct in 1881, rediscovered in 1967.

Western Mouse - Presumed extinct in 1930, rediscovered in 1971. (Not quite 50 years though!)

Bridled Nail-tailed Wallaby - Presumed extinct in 1930, rediscovered in 1973.

Leadbeater's Possum - Quite a famous example (along with the Night Parrot). Presumed extinct in 1909. Rediscovered in 1961. Still Endangered though.

Gilbert's Potoroo - takes the cake (so far) being the longest presumed extinct. Was declared extinct in 1841, and rediscovered over 120 years later in 1994. Now Critically Endangered.

I'm afraid I don't much by the way of links, mostly book references. However the book references are contemporary and up-to-date, and many can be found at a local library. For the one link I have, I'll quote it directly:

Today in the Proceedings of the Royal Society B, the researchers reported that 67 of the 187 "missing" mammal species they identified were rediscovered. Just one of the refound species - the Australian desert rat kangaroo Caloprymnus campestris - later became truly extinct.

"This makes sense to me as I'm absolutely convinced the we routinely underestimate the potential resistance of our Australian mammals," commented UNSW life scientist Mike Archer.
-http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/he ... 5932020670

(References: The Flight of the Emu: A Hundred Years of Australian Ornithology 1901 - 2001.
Native Mice and Rats by Bill Breed.
Macropods published by CSIRO.
Betongs, Potoroos and the Musky Rat Kangaroo published by Carey Krajewski via CSIRO)

There are more, especially in the realm of insects, arachnids, and amphibians. But I think this is a good sample of some of the more well-known cases of this happening in Australia.

[TxCat]

I would also disagree that cryptozoology is not a real science. Most people are under the misapprehension that the goal of cryptozoology is in proving that mythical creatures exist. That is not the case, at least not for most of the research I've seen and read. Cryptozoology studies the plausibility of whether or not these creatures can live or have lived or area living on the planet based on current and past ecologies, solid fossil evidence, weather patterns, foliage studies, and a variety of other scientific techniques. The one cryptozoology guide I have on the Bigfoots, for instance, is a beautifully written and illustrated scientific cataloging of the various reported sightings, climates inhabited, possible migration patterns, etc.

Give me time to get some coffee and some food and I'll dig out some of those resources in order to demonstrate.

[tirial]

I don't see anything far fetched in the idea that there are creatures that we don't know about. In fact, I think it would be rather arrogant to think that we knew every species of creature e.g a recent BBC series about the deep sea ended up uncovering a whole set of new ocean animals that were new to science. It is fairly easy for animals such as foxes or even as large as deer to live and go largely unseen in towns, so it isn't beyond the realms of possibility that something larger could survive undiscovered in wilderness areas. The Coelcanth and goblin shark were both thought to be extinct, after all and would have qualified as cryptids before their formal recognition.

When unusual sightings are reported, they need to be explored in a scientific manner, all data collected and examined, and working hypothesis created. Cryptozoology is the science of investigating these, unmasking hoaxes (which most people forget), and finding hidden animals - whether they are new to science, formerly presumed extinct like the coelcanth, or an existing animal in an unusual environment. The alternative to investigating these odd occurances - performing cryptozoology - is to discard data because it doesn't fit current ideas, which would be very bad science indeed.

[DoctorAwkward]

I also agree that cryptozoology is a proper science. I've always been interested in the unknown and unproved, and when everyone else did reports on Abraham Lincoln and Harriet Tubman, I was delving through books on bigfoot. I believe that there is sufficient proof that large, unknown animals can exist. Some of them, I believe, are a bit far-fetched. I still need some convincing on Thunderbirds and pterodactyls.
But I think that mainstream scientists are being a bit unfair on the cryptids. I think there is a lot of good, hard evidence that is just dismissed as a hoax or a floating log or something. It seems that it takes many people to convince science that an animal might be real, then only one person has to declare the evidence a fake, and it's lost to the land of the Surgeon's Photo.

And I agree with Ravenari on the fact that species have been considered extinct then found. Another example would be the ivory-billed woodpecker. Thought to be extinct since 1944, rediscovered in 2004.
(Source- http://training.fws.gov/history/article ... ecker.html)