Aggressiveness in Dogs

[bunny4eva]

Sorry, if this has been posted before. I'm pretty sure it hasn't though.

So guys, I'm just curious to know what your views on so called "vicious" are. I personally think that it's the owner that turns the pup into an individual and no pups are born evil. And all of the incidents with dog killings are all based around the dog's history and what kind of family or setting he has put into and how he has been trained. Generally speaking, dogs don't attack for fun like their wolf cousins.

EDIT: (for wolfeyedangel) Pitbulls are the most misjudged breed of dog. Many people belive they are mean animals that only wish to fight and kill. Most people only see the bad, never the good. Pitbulls are banned in some states, (I don't live in America but I heard that they are.) even dogs that LOOK like Pitbulls. I have known some people who call them monsters. When really they are the monsters. People train pitbulls to fight and be aggressive. They aren't born that way. Pitbulls are happy, loyal, friendly animals to have as pets.

I think...
Pitbull's are a perfectly safe dog. Though they have an agression streak which can rise as a pup. You have to be careful as to how you treat this. If you make the wrong decision as how to train your pup and the agression comes out it could be fatal for the poor dog's life. ( I mean that it may result in being put down...) Here in Ireland pitbull's are not trusted, but people who have experience with them and are regarded as "safe" and have not been involved in any dog fighting or such will be allowed to keep them as pets. (They are not a very common dog here. But their lookalike staffies are *very* popular!!) I feel sorry the pitbull's in America where they are banned, but judging from some of the programes that I've seen on animal channels - dog fighting is not unusual in some part

From a personal side, I'm keeping an eye on my male Rottweiler after he attacked my male Springer Spaniel. Poor guy barely made it, he was mauled to bits. Luckily for him though, he's nearly fully recovered now. If he attacks again I may consider getting him put down. (even though it's the last thing I want to do!!) So I'm keeping a close eye on him. Still as friendly as ever with people - thank God!

So, your views on these dogs please!

[FennecFyre]

I agree that so called "aggressive breeds" are made mean, not born mean. We have a pittie, and she's the sweetest thing ever.

[bunny4eva]

I agree that so called "aggressive breeds" are made mean, not born mean. We have a pittie, and she's the sweetest thing ever.

Awwww, I love it when pitbulls become family dogs. They're such sweethearts.

[wolfeyedangel]

If you are going to chit chat about breeds and dogs you know and how much you love them go here: 42-hall-of-speakers/101777-pets.html

If you are going to discuss standardization issues and complications with that go here: 42-hall-of-speakers/101773-designer-bre ... ation.html

If you want this to survive as a thread, keep it well targeted to discuss the specific breeds mentioned.

Wolfcub, bunny4eva: Put more thought into your responses. One-two liners are not in general acceptable, and neither of your comments have been insightful enough to actually warrant an exception to that. I know it's been mentioned where you can see it more than once. Re-read the stickied rules for this section and follow them or refrain from posting here.

~Wolfeyedangel

[bunny4eva]

On a side note, your dog that attacked the other one has already learned that being aggressive toward smaller creatures is ok. I won't say it's impossible to train them otherwise, but it will be difficult, and next time it could be another person instead of a pet. If you can invest in the training, keep the dog. If not, well it's not my place to tell you what to do, but it may be better to have it put down before it has that chance to hurt another pet or a person. I probably would have already done so, even if it was difficult.

Yeah, I'm not sure what to do with him now... he's been locked up in run for the past few days, only letting him out for some exercise. I'm going to give him another chance but I think that some obedience lessons would a good idea. I think that everyone deserves a second chance and I have a strong feeling that he won't let me down again. He's loyal and always tries to pleases friends and family. I'm pretty sure that he realised what he did was wrong. But I'm gonna keep him away from other dogs for the time being.

Thanks for your opinion and long post, I really appreciate it!


@wolfeyedangel
I have participated in both of those topics. If you have any problems with this topic I really won't mind if you lock it up! I would just like some opinions on what the rest of the world thinks of these dogs. I'll try not to wonder off subject like wolfcub did.
I'll focus on the topic of discussion now! :sadtard:

[Synchronized]

I think aggressiveness is genetic, just like anything else wanted or unwanted in dogs or people. Sure, your rottie/pitbull/labrador/bernese mountain dog/corgi can be GREAT around people! ...But once they see a dog, they go crazy and try to attack. There's really no training out of this, unless the cause is not having socialization when the dog is young, but even with this some dogs(like bully breeds) are just naturally dog-aggressive because of their recent breeding.

This does not make these dogs bad pets. This does not make them worthy of euthanization. It does, however, raise their chances of getting in trouble with another dog and being euthanized anyway because they hurt another animal. It makes them harder to handle(and new dog owners SHOULDN'T be trying to handle dogs like pits anyway; they're way too stubborn and hard-headed for most people and don't pick up on training too easily).

[wolfeyedangel]

Syncronized would you care to back that up with any actual personal observations or documented articles proving that the breeds under discussion are, indeed, bred to be more aggressive (as differentiated from more Tenacious, Aggressive is the willingness to begin a fight, tenacity is carrying through with a course of action without faltering they can be easily be confused)?

You seem to be taking the line most put out by the news media rather than any actual research into the breed. Have you actually done research on them? Do you have personal experiences that led you to such a sweeping opinion? If not what has led you to this conclusion?

~Wolfeyedangel, as Devil's Advocate

[Synchronized]

Syncronized would you care to back that up with any actual personal observations or documented articles proving that the breeds under discussion are, indeed, bred to be more aggressive (as differentiated from more Tenacious, Aggressive is the willingness to begin a fight, tenacity is carrying through with a course of action without faltering they can be easily be confused)?

You seem to be taking the line most put out by the news media rather than any actual research into the breed. Have you actually done research on them? Do you have personal experiences that led you to such a sweeping opinion? If not what has led you to this conclusion?

~Wolfeyedangel, as Devil's Advocate

I said THINK. I think they are like that. It's as much an opinion as "I think it's the way they are raised" that was said earlier in the thread.

And you're wrong. Media says these dogs are unfit for human companions and vicious. I said they can be great human companions, but not great at socializing with other dogs(this is, of course, NOT including dogs within their own home). Unless you meant the fact that pits are stubborn dogs-- that's not opinion, that's truth, and multiple dog trainers I work with say the same thing.

EDIT: Just clarifying here that I meant the SPECIFIC dog rather than the breed as a whole.

[wolfeyedangel]

Hence why I specified the difference between aggression and tenacity, which you didn't seem to be making and I wished to clarify on. Also, the trainers and rescuers I have spoken to have never referred to the bully breeds as stubborn, tenacious yes, but not stubborn. One of the key things that has cropped up in the conversations I have had is that these are breeds that will do ANYTHING for their owner, and will kill themselves trying to do what they think their owner wants.

You stated, as fact, that pitbulls and various other breeds would invariably act in an aggressive manner towards other dogs unless socialized from a very young age. I was wondering what the basis for your opinion was, which sources were you using to formulate your opinion since it is much closer to the media line than it is to what I have been hearing from the rescues and trainers I have been speaking to, especially regarding the bully breeds. There is a discrepancy here and I was hoping you would come back with some more information we could use to further the discussion, and possibly turn this back around to a useful way of dealing with adverse behavior in these breeds. I look forward to hearing a bit more about the basis of your opinion and some of your reasoning.

~Wolf <----Make note, this signature means I'm not in Mod-mode.

[Synchronized]

Hence why I specified the difference between aggression and tenacity, which you didn't seem to be making and I wished to clarify on. Also, the trainers and rescuers I have spoken to have never referred to the bully breeds as stubborn, tenacious yes, but not stubborn. One of the key things that has cropped up in the conversations I have had is that these are breeds that will do ANYTHING for their owner, and will kill themselves trying to do what they think their owner wants.

You stated, as fact, that pitbulls and various other breeds would invariably act in an aggressive manner towards other dogs unless socialized from a very young age. I was wondering what the basis for your opinion was, which sources were you using to formulate your opinion since it is much closer to the media line than it is to what I have been hearing from the rescues and trainers I have been speaking to, especially regarding the bully breeds. There is a discrepancy here and I was hoping you would come back with some more information we could use to further the discussion, and possibly turn this back around to a useful way of dealing with adverse behavior in these breeds. I look forward to hearing a bit more about the basis of your opinion and some of your reasoning.

~Wolf <----Make note, this signature means I'm not in Mod-mode.

I have honestly never heard someone describe pits as willing to kill themselves over doing something for their owners. Stubbornness and tenacity is often used interchangeably, and the majority of times either tends to crop up in the worst of situations; chasing smaller animals, protecting territory, etc. The majority of the time this IS due to bad training, but that doesn't make much of a difference-- without training a dog will just do what comes naturally to them(and dogs aren't exactly smart; they can't KNOW what pleases us without training). If a dog is naturally trying to attack other dogs(whether from aggression or excitement) then it's safe to say the dog is dog-aggressive and unsocialized. This has NOTHING to do with human-aggression, however, which is not what I was responding to.

The Most Aggressive Dog Breeds is a blog link about aggressive dog breeds, noting that there are higher percentages in dog-dog aggression than there is in dog-human aggression.

Dog Breed Aggression is the Discovery Channel linked in the blog, mainly dealing with dog-human aggression.

Abused or Unsocialized? is an article for trying to help an aggressive dog that was unsocialized, rather than abused, which is what people would tend to think of an aggressive/afraid shelter dogs.

I have never spoken to a trainer that didn't advocate socialization from an early age for ANY dog breed, much less bullies or other "aggressive" breeds, and the chances of any dog being dog-aggressive raises the older they get(unless you're lucky and have an extremely submissive dog). Even people who run pit rescues(for instance, that one on Animal Planet-- not Pit Boss, the other one. Can't remember the name) understand when dogs they rescue are too unsocialized to trust them in a group of other dogs, or when extremely aggressive dogs brought to them have bad breeding which, regardless of what anyone may think, CAN affect how a dog naturally reacts to another dog, with or without socialization.

Chesapeake Bay Retriever Relief & Rescue page on various types of aggression and possible treatments.(This does not only apply to one breed of dog, obviously)

Animal Human Society on causes of aggression, including genetic predisposition.

Holistic Pet page on dog aggression types and treatments, including natural remedies.

Pits in particular seem to get the worst of bad breeding-- what with so many backyard breeders, the popularity of dog fights, and strays running the street, there's really not as much control over what kind of dog is coming out as there used to be, back when pits were actually used for work and "nanny" duties rather than big tough ugly guard dogs.