Fish talk

[Nikanika]

As to animal control - many places just don't have the means to take care of much else besides dogs. They don't have the facilities, the man power, the knowledge, or the money to deal with every stray cat or underfed livestock. Just recently, there was an article in the paper about AC dealing with neglected horses. Even Boise doesn't have room to take in confiscated horses, and there's more of them out here. They would much rather educate about proper horse care than confiscate. Even when they do have to remove horses, besides not having anywhere to put them, there's nobody to adopt them because everyone is in the same financial straits right now, so the good horse owners have their hands full caring for their own animals.

Let met tell you the story of the hoarder down the block, you'll be mad

There was and old lady who lived down the block, one of my neighbors called AC, and they came and Took five dogs and left. the lady went to jail for animal abuse (the dogs had been beaten) me and some of my freinds dared each other to go inside when me and some of my freinds finally went inside it was crawling with cats and had a fish tank with a dead betta in it. Now they might not have the capacity for cats and fish but how dare they just leave them there and

they were deemed sick and unadoptable on site

isnt an excuse


Oh yeah these goldfish make me laugh, may contain curses http://www.cracked.com/article_19950_th ... ce_p2.html

[Sainler]

I dont dump fish food into the water every hour. One small pinch every five hours is not causeing the water to cloud. Its the damn goldfish just being goldfish. They produce tons of ammonia and the bacteria can get rid of so much. Youre becoming very accusatory and rude sounding, so im going to ask you to calm down.


@Nik.
Thats awful. :c. They should at least taken the cats to the shelter for further examination, and if needed, to be put down. They shouldnt just leave them there to suffer. Poor babys..

[TNHawke]

You asked why your tank was cloudy and what you could do about it. I gave you a valid answer. I'm sorry that you don't like it and feel I'm being rude.

[Sainler]

"If the fish HAVE to be fed constantly, then why have I always had crystal clear water with my goldfish tanks, feeding once (or twice) a day, and healthy fish who lived for years, and you have cloudy water and dying fish?"

Sounds very rude.

I dont constantly feed my fish either. I dont think you understand that. A tiny pinch every 5 hours is not constant feeding.


Onto a new subject::

In regards to the poll, what was your answer and why?

My choice was "other". I dont think bettas are good beginner fish because people at the store lie and say they can be kept in a glass bowl with no filter or air stones/bubblers. While they are abit less demanding in space, they need water changes every few days, warmer water, etc.
My choice for a good beginner fish would be a guppy. Theyre small(ish) and adorable. You can get 3 males in a 10+ gal tank. The males come in stunning colors, and theyre not too picky on anything.
I just love guppys.

[TNHawke]

According to at least one of the links you posted, they should be fed a lot more than my experience has shown.
Stating facts and asking you to think about them is not rude.
Fact 1- I've been keeping fish for 25 years- I got my first tank, a little 5 gal with an under gravel filter, for my 11th birthday. I'm about to turn 36. I've had a fish tank up and running for all that time, but a few months here and there. I did a lot of things wrong early on, but have learned by experience, reading books and magazines, talking to other hobbiests, and since the coming of the internet, by reading sound articles online.
Fact 2 - I love goldfish. I've kept them many times. I would have them now, but I don't have room for a second tank. I prefer 'feeder' goldfish, the basic and comet type, and when I do go for fancier ones it's usually been shubunkins, but I've also kept ryukins, fantails, moors, pompoms, telescopes, and celestials. I've also had koi when I lived in a place with a fountain/ pond.
Fact 3 - I've never had issues with cloudy water.
Fact 4 - I feed once to twice a day
Fact 5 - my fish live for years
Fact 6 - You posted complaining of cloudy water
Fact 7 - you stated you didn't know why
Fact 8 - You asked for help
Fact 9 - You stated your tiger barb recently died.

What's actually "rude" here? Me asking you to think about these facts, or you asking for help and then rejecting or apparently ignoring everything that is told to you? That's all I have to say about that, so let's go on with the actual issue at hand.

Ok, so sure, Goldfish don't have a true stomach, that was news to me, and kind of cool, actually. But they do still have a pouch in their digestive system for holding food. Their digestive system may be short, but it is efficient. They do produce a lot of waste.
So, the real question is how do you feed them properly while cutting down on waste? Waste being uneaten food, as well as poop.
They are not herbivores, and thus do not need to be fed as though they are grazing.

I did best feeding my goldfish sinking shrimp pellets and sinking algae wafers. This caters to their omnivorous needs. And the sinking food helps cut down on swim bladder issues which I ran into with my fancy goldfish when they gulped air from floating food. A nice thing about the pellets and wafers is that it's easy to know exactly how much you're feeding, since "a pinch" can vary greatly. If the fish don't eat an entire pellet in one feeding, it doesn't just dissolve to cloud the water, it stays in a nice, soft pile that the fish can then go back to later, or you know that maybe one less pellet is a good idea. So, maybe, in that way, my goldfish were eating 'more often' than my one to two feedings a day, but I wasn't fouling the water with that method.
So, a food that doesn't dissolve, plus the fish eating all the food, combined with a good filter and weekly vacuuming of the gravel keeps the tank sparkling clean and the fish healthy and long lived.

None of that changes the fact that the goldfish should not be living with tropical fish, or that your method of feeding is causing the water to be cloudy, that you could easily have elevated ammonia levels (due to wasted food, and fish waste), and this fouled water is likely a contributing factor to the death of the tiger barb.

I'll post about beginner fish later, I have to go to work.

[Nikanika]

http://www.goldfish-as-pets.com/what_to ... dfish.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goldfish

[TNHawke]

Those links both have solid, good information. Thanks Nikanika (can I call you just Nika?) I'm actually surprised that the Wiki one was good. Sometimes Wiki's a bit fluffy.

I just remembered something else that I've done for my goldfish. Organic carrots, with the tops on. Cut about an inch of the carrot off with the tops and plant them in the tank. They last a long time, and the fish enjoy nibbling on the greens. If they totally mow it, who cares!?! Toss the carrot end (I wouldn't eat it at that point, it's been sucking up fish water, yuck!) and plant a new one.

Ok, beginner fish.

I actually don't recommend guppies. With all the line breeding (ie- inbreeding) done to make the colors bright and tails big, they aren't nearly as hardy as they were even a few decades ago.

My favorite starter fish- fish that I recommend to beginners as well as fish that I use to start cycling a new tank, are danios and white-clouds. These are hardy, active, cute little fish. They stay smallish so you can fit several in even a small tank. Danios are even playful. I've seen so many of them play tag, where one is distinctly 'it' and when he catches another that one becomes 'it'. Danios are fairly upper level swimmers, staying within a few inches of the surface most of the time.
White-clouds are mellower and more mid-swimmers. Also extremely hardy and quite cute (if you ask me)

Another benefit to both these species is that they tend to be on the cheaper end of the spectrum, so if you do have a total biosystem crash, or contract an illness and all the fish die, it's not a financial blow, and they are common, so they can easily be replaced in the tank.

Another benefit is that they both come in several types, both long and short finned and albino/ partial albino types, and the danios have at least two distinct types, zebra and leopard, the zebras being the most common. The original Glo-fish are modified zebra danios and I do NOT include these as my favorite starters. I have found the Glow-fish to be fairly fragile, especially compared to their hardier relatives. I'm also not including the Pearl danios or Giant danios in these starter fish, mostly because the Pearls get a bit larger than the others and the giant danios are just that, they grow quite a bit bigger, upwards of 3 inches.

One more benefit to danios and white-clouds as the fish you start cycling a tank with, they are community fish, and stay fairly small, so other fish can be added to the tank later, either as a community, or, if say you want to go with oscars or other cichlids... well... they can make decent feeder fish!

[Nikanika]

Yeah you can, nika, or Nikki I don't care

I picked Cory cats because they're hardy and fun to watch

[Nikanika]

http://fcas.wordpress.com/2010/03/03/to ... nners-fish

Guppies are at the top of this list

http://lamarcs.deviantart.com/art/Petco ... -146228183 sigh, here's a fish related link for clicking waste

[TNHawke]

Careful of the doubleposting, Nika. The mods'll smack your hands for that.

That second link... I laughed so hard! It makes me sad though, because in Boise, the place to get good information, and healthy fish (as well as other pets) is Petco.

Good link on the 10 worst beginner fish. I was glad to see the balloon forms and dyed fish on there.
I also clicked on their 'best beginner fish' and was thrilled to see my two recommendations- the white cloud and zebra danio, as well as one of my favorite community fish, the rasbora in there.

I'm a little worried about my tank full of tiger and green barbs with angelfish... so far, there has been no fin nipping, but I worry a little about it. I think maybe I have enough barbs that they stick to themselves and don't bother the angels.

I also agree that corycats make some great beginner fish. And I always keep a few as bottom feeders. my tank currently has two albinos and two peppers, but my favorites are actually the jullii type- silver with black spots or squiggles, but I haven't been able to find them lately. I really like the panda cats, but they seem to be the only not-hardy corycat I've ever encountered. They always seem to be small and then die within a few months.
One store, a number of years ago, had Minicories. They grew to only a quarter to half the size of the normal corycats, and were often sold with bettas. Unfortunately, they weren't particularly hardy (or probably didn't do so well in a betta bowl) and the store stopped carrying them and I've never seen them since.