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Sourikus
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Re: Video Games

Post by Sourikus »

There is a joke going around the internet about how the less a female warrior wears, the stronger the clothes are as armour whereas for guys it's the other way around. It's sometimes strange how some (auxiliary) (female) characters are purposely portrayed as sexy on purpose (and just to boost sales). It doesn't work. (@punyama I agree with what you say, just talking about those done on purpose)

I think women should be given a more active role within video games and not just be the prize for a man. Men have always been seen as stronger, better, and it is high time that this perception was removed. Women can be as good as men if not better. And if women characters are done well they can serve the role of protagonist just as well.

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Re: Video Games

Post by PeachyImperfect »

have ya'll checked out dragon age origins and dark souls? because the former has some really awesome women that kick butt and the latter is a medieval RPG with no ~sexi wemmin armour~ stuff. games DO exist with what ya'll are talking about regarding female characters being taken seriously and not just being eye-candy ect, the problem is the process of getting away from the eye-candy stuff is really slow right now, mostly because of the corporate gaming companies that like to sell sexy female images in games to men to make them feel like theyre actually getting female attention rofl.
but yeah, this whole ordeal is frustrating. im hoping the new dragon age game will be good so i can brag about it being a cool game that doesnt make women uncomfortable to play.
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Re: Video Games

Post by kirjava076 »

As a female Games Development student I think I understand the concept of this fairly well, so I feel like this is something I should comment on. First of all, I'm gonna get my personal stances(?) out of the way first so you can clearly see my point of view. Im a white 20 year old female, non binary sexuality and disabled with other health issues and with some mental issues tucked in there too. I've been playing video games from I was six years old, and continued to game after loosing a lot of the mobility in one upper limb due to injury.
I hear a lot of the same arguments over and over again, and thought that they might be useful to hear, despite the stupidity of most of them.

1) Gaming is a male world, the main characters are built either to identify to or to idealise, female characters are designed so that the player wants to care enough to want to protect her
While this is the main view of most developers in the industry, that doesn't make it particularly true. The number of females that play video games is increasing dramatically from when video games first came out when the number of female gamers was virtually zero. Now with changes to how life is for the majority of women and the connotations of being a woman it has had an impact on their actual audiences rather than their target audiences. It is no longer appropriate to assume that the majority of your audience are straight males, nor is it smart to assume that those that aren't will switch the roles that you have set in place. This is something that should be balanced more as the "hero" effect is even loosing its effectiveness in movies, with people often gravitating towards side characters and sidekicks as their favourites as they find the hero role to be cheesy.

2) Gaming has traditionally classified genders into particular settings, classes and character types
These tend to be based again on the principle stated above. It is also based on games and practices prevalent in the first games of their kind and classic games as well. However, it must be remembered that it is no longer the 60s and 70s and a lot of women are fit to be represented as the strong and stable characters that are often reserved for men such as warriors and knights. It must also be remembered that being male doesn't automatically mean that you are fit for being a warrior or knight. It also comes down to how people play and things, and even if i don't personally like physical roles because I'm bad at them, that doesn't mean that this is applicable to other people in my position.

Girls don't make a big enough of a percentage of gamers to be worth the amount of money we'd have to spend targeting them
This is no longer the case. While females are shown to be fairly less likely to be competitive gamers or hardcore gamers, they far surpass male gamers in casual gaming, at least according to the statistics. Women spend much more time and money in apps than men, and my personal hypothesis is that it could be to do with the age of mobile gaming. While consoles and other forms of gaming have been around for decades and have thrived off the stereotypes, mobile gaming is very fresh and new, allowing for women to play them without worrying about being shunned or treated differently to their male counterparts. I get this because as a gamer who plays console and PC games often, I no longer play them on multiplayer because immediately after it becomes apparent I'm female I usually get a mix of these two reactions; abuse for being female, or suddenly getting special treatment. And while I enjoy the fact I'm being gifted items and currency, I don't like the fact that its usually to gain favour from me or that its because they don't think I can get them myself. These sorts of treatment put many girls off of playing console games or becoming competitive or hardcore gamers, and imposes stereotypes that don't fit the reality, as per usual. This stops many females entering the industry and getting to be developers to influence the games themselves, turning this into a vicious cycle. I can vouch for this as out of a class of 22, I am the only female. In the class in the year above me out of 23 there are two girls. In my province there's only two universities and one of them offers the equivalent course (I'm at a college currently) free of tuition fees to all girls living locally who qualify to try and attract more diversity on to the course. The less female input into games the less that a balanced view gets into the games, the more male-orientated the games turn out to be and less females are interested in a serious view on gaming.

It is historically inaccurate to represent women in this way
This is an argument that I struggle with, to be honest. Mainly because it isn't necessarily wrong. While it is of course a small percentage of games that can make this claim, when they can it is a solid defense to pose. In a modern game we try to set a pace for society to follow. In a futuristic game we as part of the media should be giving gamers a type of humanity to aspire to, or make it clear we want to steer clear of the reality we are portraying. The past... has passed. The past is full of injustice and struggles, and is full of mistakes made by humanity but we can't change it. If we alter our perception of it, then we risk trivialising the issues these women would have faced in these times. We risk people not realising the fact that it actually existed (I have read of things like people not knowing that historical events aren't real, despite living close to where they happened) and it trivialising not only the struggles of women in yesteryear, but also in the modern day who are still fighting for their rights. And it also risks us forgetting our mistakes, mistakes that we are still in the process of learning to not do again. Honestly, in my opinion for what I played of Assassin's Creed it was closer to accurate in how women were portrayed than will be comfortable for some people. Personally I believe that it's dangerous to take situations that are meant to be based on history and groups like the Brotherhood and altering them to make them more idealistic as it was in the time its set because of the reasons above. I personally believe that misrepresenting a time period can be very destructive.



In all honesty, all of this stems from an unwillingness to accept that girls like to game too, and sometimes as passionately as males too. A lot of women are put off by the idea of it being a mans thing, and others by the treatment that they often get in the gaming community. The way society views general humanity is very screwed up, they like their little boxes and like everyone to fit into little boxes, but in reality nobody fits perfectly into one box. If people try to shove others into boxes that they don't belong into, such as pre-teen boys screaming down xBox Live that you better stop messing up and that you need to put the controller down and go do something you're good at like make them a sandwich, it's going to make people want to avoid challenging their box no matter how restrictive and uncomfortable it is and if this behaviour isn't challenged it becomes the norm, and even harder to change.

In other words the issue that is showing up in games a lot is not just a problem in gaming, but its seated deep in culture in our schools, our relationships, movies, books, TV shows, streets, work, everywhere. Even in the very minds of people that exist now. It's part of humanity, and while it can be changed it'll take more than incorporating some well written characters in games. While its certainly a great start, it's not a simple fix.
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DracoHandsome
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Re: Video Games

Post by DracoHandsome »

I've grown increasingly impatient with the faux-feminist agenda (as compared to the genuine feminist movement; same name, totally different values) and its attempt to chokehold entertainment, particularly video games.

If you make a character a woman just for the sake of her being female, then you're devolving the female condition into a sideshow attraction, and that isn't doing anything admirable for "representation". This is the same problem that affects popular media depiction of say, gays, who in media are almost never normal people who happen to be gay but will always have their gayness as a constant topic of discussion, thus turning them into an exotic and alien weird thing rather than a #(!@ing person.

What really pisses me off are "strong female characters" - the concept is completely hypocritical. They're just another precise standard demanded / forced of women and their portrayals in media, and I could have sworn that was precisely what feminism was meant to combat but uh?

Male characters aren't even given any better treatment than females. It only looks like this due to perspective and value dissonance; women usually aren't offended by male stereotypes and vice versa. The male characters are, like the female ones, false ideals - they support superfluous if not harmful values supposedly intrinsic to "being a man", and many of them are just as sexualized as the women (see Kratos from God of War, the various Snakes of Metal Gear, SPIDER-MAN, etc.). It's just that the people who find the women sexy are usually not the same people who find the men sexy. (Ergo, perspective.)

Has anyone who objects to "sexualization of women" in video games ever considered how many women are totally okay with that? Has no woman ever considered that a random other woman might not be a clone of her ideals and values and might not give a single @!$#?

Every character is a shallow fantasy for the player, not just the females. And you know what? Not everyone is offended just because a virtual person with similar genitals is hotter than they are (hotter than most people who exist for that matter.)

And the game designers know that very well. The problem isn't that game designers want to make these kinds of games - the problem is that the society they need to sell product to wants these kinds of games. This is why good games with artistic and profound messages like Okami (female protagonist btw) get swept under the rug and forgotten. Okami doesn't appeal to those shallow archetypes and therefore a lot of shallow people just were not interested.

Far and away the most aggravating thing I've ever heard said about a video game is something I've actually heard in many different forms, but the example I'll pick is Samus Aran, the protagonist of Metroid.

Samus is what some women refer to as a "bad bitch". She is a proficient bounty hunter, forensic and criminal investigator, and general mercenary who is capable of single-handedly exterminating (or almost-exterminating) several species who define war and predation as their entire point of existence, namely Metroids, the SA-X parasites, and Space Pirates.

With the exception of Other M, a horrible game on most fronts, Samus is one of the most courageous, respectable, and admirable female characters gaming has to offer.

... She is also consistently portrayed as flaming hot whenever she isn't in her space armor, causing faux-feminists to immediately hate her and consider her an insulting objectification of women, apparently unaware that "tasteless" is not the same thing as "sexist".

This is literally ignoring all of Samus's considerable talents, strengths, and accomplishments to slut-shame her. There is no way to interpret that sentiment other than that respectable women are not allowed to be sexy, and what kind of feminist says women aren't allowed something?

The "feminism" that usually gives a crap about video games isn't feminism; it's sexism against women by other women. There is no worse kind than that.
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Re: Video Games

Post by Toucannon »

Yeah theres this game I play called Tera, and the first character I created was a dude, even though I'm not one, because the female armor options disgusted me
ugh
so yeah all of my characters in that game are male because the girls pretty much wear nothing
I just want games, if there are different character options at all, to NOT have like five guys to choose from and the one girl
dumb
Also an amount of clothing that actually makes sense in the game?
Like sorry but if you're not wearing anything in a fantasy world with a crap ton of monsters that's gonna do nothing for you anyway
come on at least be a little realistic that's ridiculous
disgusting
I mean I guess I don't really care about the not many options once in a while, but really?
That's like 90% of video games.
It's like they make every character male, then be like, oh wait, we gotta have some diversity lol
*throws just one female character in there with a choppy backstory and crap*
there lol
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Re: Video Games

Post by AsterTheBeastmaster »

I dislike getting political, but video games are very important to me and have been since I was five. My gaming career started with Pokemon Blue, and only grew from there. Indeed, Pokemon and many of the games and fellow gamers I grew up with still hold a very special place in my heart.

I'll start by saying that I've never had to endure sexism or discrimination from male gamers. I consider myself lucky, knowing that there are a few jerks out there, but that's key: ONLY a few. In my experience, the friendliest people I've ever met, male or female, have been gamers. That's why it hurts me to see people accuse gaming and gamers to be grossly and blatantly sexist--they take a stereotype that's been perpetuated for far too long and blow it way out of proportion. Even now, I've seen self-proclaimed feminists take games that I've played from start to finish, and loved, and lie about them to promote an agenda. They're creating a threatening atmosphere that's scaring women away, not encouraging them to join the industry, and that in turn scares me. I don't want to see such a creative and promising medium become tainted with strict political correctness.

There are so many amazing female characters in gaming already, many of which the player has the option to create and mold to what they want, be it sexy temptresses or hardened, no-nonsense warriors. Which brings me to my next rambling, sentimental statement.

I see no problem in women wearing skimpy outfits or being "sexualized". As a matter of fact, I think it's empowering. It says to me that a female character can kick serious ass and look incredible doing it. Who cares if she's incredibly sexy, or a bit of a slut, or downright flirtatious? She's a badass that can hold her own with the best of them! The epitome of what I'm talking about can be found in Bayonetta, one of my favorite female characters. Who's to say that celebrating and idealizing a woman's beauty and sexuality, while simultaneously having her crush her enemies, is a bad thing? It never was!

Women are beautiful, and strong, and powerful. I think video games do a better job at celebrating them than most other mediums. I'm not saying it's perfect; I'm aware there are still problems that need to be addressed, and at the end of the day there will always be a vocal minority of assholes who want to ruin it for others. But it isn't as bad as some people would have others believe. I love video games, and I think others should too.

I guess I'll end it here before I ramble on too much. Just wanted to put my two cents in, and get all this off my chest.
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Re: Video Games

Post by Zinni »

The sexism in video games never really bothered me, to be honest. xD Yeah, it's nice to play a game like the 2013 Tomb Raider reboot and have a strong female lead, or even to play some of my favorite fighting games, like the Tekken series and have some awesome female characters to play as.

But yeah, it never bothered me at all, really. Maybe that's because most of the games I play are platformers and all the characters you play as are cute little hedgehogs and crocodiles and stuff like that, even if they are of the male gender.

I really don't take video games too seriously, in terms of sexism, causing violence, etc. I take them for what they are to me: a way to have fun. ^-^

I'm really big on the horror genre and love getting scared, so I tend to gravitate towards the more scary games too. All in all, I really don't care who/what you play as in the game.

If the game itself is fun to play and has a good story that keeps me interested, I'm in. ^-^

Question to everyone in this topic: I'm curious, what are some of your favorite games?

Mine right now are Dead Island (even though I'm stuck on this one mission xD), the 2013 Tomb Raider and I'm still working on beating all 4 Five Night's At Freddy's games. They're unbelievably hard to complete 100%. x_x
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Re: Video Games

Post by AsterTheBeastmaster »

Zinni wrote:*snip*

Question to everyone in this topic: I'm curious, what are some of your favorite games?

Mine right now are Dead Island (even though I'm stuck on this one mission xD), the 2013 Tomb Raider and I'm still working on beating all 4 Five Night's At Freddy's games. They're unbelievably hard to complete 100%. x_x
Oh, I adore the Fallout games. I'm a big fan of blood and gore, and messing around with the corpses and putting them in stupid poses is always fun. I'm so hyped up for Fallout 4 that I might scream like a fangirl when I start playing it! I also like Dragon's Dogma, especially its expansion DLC: Dark Arisen. Dragon's Dogma isn't quite as sweeping or as rich in lore as Skyrim is, but the combat system is pure gaming nirvana compared to Skyrim's "just hack and slash at nothing in particular" schtick. I'm looking forward to a sequel from Capcom, but I hope they don't mess up Dragon's Dogma's potential. Especially after what they delivered with Dark Arisen. I believe it could surpass and upstage The Elder Scrolls in just about every way if Capcom handled it well enough.
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Re: Video Games

Post by Silenxia »

Well you're the opposite of me...I have a weak stomach in terms of gore....

Has anyone heard of this one game that involves a creepy dollhouse and a main character named Alice? A friend on DeviantArt has talked about it a few times and it sounds...pretty bizarre. Unfortunately, my gaming is at a stand still because my cable box decided to go out (which means all my T.V. watching is solely computer watching).

Lately I seem to have things that don't work or is lost...lost my WII remote which means no Super Mario Galaxy (which sucks because I love those stars), no Pokepark (even more of a bummer)...yeah.

Oh does anyone know of Dog Island? Another friend of mine mentioned it a few times and I've seen videos...the only part that confuses me is to why there are large green cobras moving around...oh yeah, yet another bummer about no Wii remove...I can't LoZ Skyward Sword.
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Re: Video Games

Post by AsterTheBeastmaster »

I haven't heard of that one, but I'll look out for it. It seems interesting. Also, I feel your pain. I just moved to a new house and I can't hook up my PS3 and play anything yet. Sucks, because I've been itching to binge on Fallout 3 in preparation for 4.

But in the mean time I've been entertaining myself with The Binding of Isaac on my laptop. Really awesome game, I must say!

Oh, and I know Dog Island from Game Grumps. Their videos on it had me in stitches and I'm still confused as to whether or not this game is trying to be dark and depressing or cute and cuddly. :lol:

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