You know what annoys me?

[Intempestivity]

I can't honestly fathom why anyone would gift a pet unless it was something that has been discussed in detail with the person receiving a gift--for example, if a couple have talked repeatedly about getting a dog and have both committed to training it and caring for it and one partner surprises the other (even then--why wouldn't you want to choose your puppy together? Surprise them with a trip to buy a puppy as opposed to the puppy itself).

Parents buying their kids pets as presents are ok as long as the parent is ready and willing to take responsibility for the pet when the kid inevitably loses interest. If the adult in the equation is not prepared to walk/feed/clean/train the animal, then why do they think that their offspring would be? That's just irresponsible and lazy on their part, and it actually screams that the parent is trying to win brownie points because they feel guilty about something (not having enough time for their kids/splitting up with their partner/moving their child across the country away from their friends/etc). Animals are not toys/accessories/video games. You can't just forget about them when you get bored, and if you're not prepared for a 10-15 year commitment, don't get one.

That's another thing--if a parent buys an animal for their child, what, exactly, do they think is going to happen when that child moves out of the house for school? If you buy a ten year old or even a six year old a dog or a cat, that dog or cat will likely still be alive when that child is old enough to go to university. Not only that, but they will be elderly and in need of even more specialised care than when they were small. Parents need to be prepared to take care of that animal at the end of its life, as their child will likely not be able to take their pet with them, regardless, of how much they care for it and take care of it.

In terms of purebreed vs shelter, the both of them have pros and cons. Purebreeds are likely to have genetic health problems, and to have very specific traits bred in to them for various purposes. A lot of people get Jack Russells because they think they're cute and a bit naughty--Jack Russells are stubborn little shits and need an owner who can stop their bad behaviours before they start. They can also be very nippy and very noisy because they're bred to be ratters. They're not good for first time dog owners nor are they good for people with very small children because of these reasons. However, certain breeds of purebreds--like Golden Retrievers--are perfect dogs for first time dog owners and/or people with small children. While all purebreeds will have health issues related to the breed, people should do their research in to the breeders and ensure that they're coming from healthy lines. I would never recommend a first time animal owner get a shelter pet unless it was a puppy or kitten that's not long been weaned and is less than three months old, and as I touched upon briefly earlier, any responsible pet owner should research the people they're buying from--how many litters do they produce a year? What is the health of their bitches and dogs like? If you decide on a breeder and go to visit, are you allowed to view the parents? Are there multiple litters on the property? Are you allowed to tour the property and look at the facilities for the animals? A reputable breeder will only have one litter at a time, will have healthy puppy parents that you can meet (and the paperwork to back up the parents' health) and will be happy to have you nose around the animal housing if it's external to the home. If any of these things do not happen, they are not someone you want to be buying from.

In terms of shelter pets, the main con is that many of them are in the shelter because of aforementioned behavioural traits. These may not always be apparent as the lineage of the dog may not always be easily recognised. Additionally, most of these shelter animals have missed the critical learning period of around three months--their owners were lazy/abusive/negligent and did not properly train or socialise their animals during this very short window of opportunity, and therefore the dogs learned bad habits/were left to their own devices. Retraining these dogs and tempering their behaviourial issues is usually slow going and can be very frustrating at times, and is definitely something that should never be attempted by someone who is unfamiliar with caring for and training dogs. It's why many dogs unfortunately end up back in shelters after being adopted out once--people think they're doing a good thing by rescuing a shelter animal (which they are), but they aren't prepared and don't have the knowledge of how to actually help that animal--so they are in over their head, the animal is just as unsocialised/confused/upset as before and the people give it back to the shelter because they think there is "just something wrong with that one". No dog is completely untrainable; some people just lack the skills, experience and patience to manage them. A good shelter will try to place the right animal with the right family, but unfortunately as lots of shelters are pressed for space, too many of them just sign over the animal without making sure the new owners are equipped to handle them.

The pros with shelter pets, if they are placed with a family that can handle their needs, are obvious--you're giving an animal a second chance, you're helping to support an animal rescue centre and you're not supporting backyard breeders and puppy mills.

TL;DR: Animals should not be given as gifts unless both the gifter and the giftee have had several serious discussions about raising an animal together. Parents should not gift animals to children unless they are prepared for the 10-15 year commitment and they are prepared to raise the animal when their child loses interest. There are pros and cons to purebreeds and shelters, and research should always be done regardless of where you're buying your animal.

[ShootingStar]

I like mutts just the same, and I fully support those who want to do shelter adoptions. But shelter adoption is not something for me, just like purebreds are not for you, and neither choice is "selfish" or "stupid" because a dog is as much about finding the right dog for the person as it is finding a healthy dog (I mean I could walk into any shelter and grab a chihuahua, and we would definitely not get along!).

No, buying a pure bred known for developing serious health issues (Such as the King Charles, or Dalmatians) based on them being cute OR well behaved is both selfish and stupid, because you're choosing your comfort over the health and thus quality of life of the dog, which is selfish, and stupid because of how much it costs to treat these dogs for said medical conditions.
Any dog can be trained if the owner is suitable for dog ownership, and most of the time, that owner can also be trained to be a suitable pet owner. If you're not willing to put in the time and effort to train the dog, then you probably shouldn't own a dog.

Parents buying their kids pets as presents are ok as long as the parent is ready and willing to take responsibility for the pet when the kid inevitably loses interest. If the adult in the equation is not prepared to walk/feed/clean/train the animal, then why do they think that their offspring would be? That's just irresponsible and lazy on their part, and it actually screams that the parent is trying to win brownie points because they feel guilty about something (not having enough time for their kids/splitting up with their partner/moving their child across the country away from their friends/etc). Animals are not toys/accessories/video games. You can't just forget about them when you get bored, and if you're not prepared for a 10-15 year commitment, don't get one.

WORD

A lot of people get Jack Russells because they think they're cute and a bit naughty--Jack Russells are stubborn little shits and need an owner who can stop their bad behaviours before they start. They can also be very nippy and very noisy because they're bred to be ratters.

I had a neighbor who got a Jack Russel for her six year old, who already had four hamsters. When she was planning, I informed her that Jack Russels are bred for catching and killing rats, so she needed to keep the dog away from the hamsters.
Surprise surprise, the dog killed all the hamsters, was exhausting, and they got rid of it after four months.

No dog is completely untrainable; some people just lack the skills, experience and patience to manage them.

Five points!

The pros with shelter pets, if they are placed with a family that can handle their needs, are obvious--you're giving an animal a second chance, you're helping to support an animal rescue centre and you're not supporting backyard breeders and puppy mills.

Ah, puppy mills, the one guaranteed business you know is owned and orated by sociopaths.

[Tekla]

No, buying a pure bred known for developing serious health issues (Such as the King Charles, or Dalmatians) based on them being cute OR well behaved is both selfish and stupid, because you're choosing your comfort over the health and thus quality of life of the dog, which is selfish, and stupid because of how much it costs to treat these dogs for said medical conditions.

Purebreds are usually at greater risk of developing serious health issues, particularly hereditary ones, but don't forget that mutts can and do develop serious health issues. A mutt can present with syringomelia, bloat, bladder stones, audiovisual problems, and any other condition that purebreds can develop. Given that, what this says to me is less "mutt > purebred" and more "no one should get any dog because the potential health issues are unfair to the dog and they cost too much to treat". X:

Any dog can be trained if the owner is suitable for dog ownership, and most of the time, that owner can also be trained to be a suitable pet owner. If you're not willing to put in the time and effort to train the dog, then you probably shouldn't own a dog.

I'm willing to put in the time and effort to train a dog I like and with which I can get along.

I flat out don't like surprises. I never have; in my experience they're more often bad than good. I don't want a surprise dog. I'm aware that nothing is 100%, but with a purebred I know what it's going to look like as an adult, how it's most likely to behave, and what its most common health problems are. With the latter, I can do research into those problems, their cost, and how to reduce the likelihood of those issues showing up in the dog. I would never get a breed with a malformation issue like the CKC spaniel or the English bulldog, or a breed that was intentionally bred for a health issue - but issues like cancer, joint dysplasias, audoivisual problems, and cardiomyopathies can appear in any dog (and again I'm aware that purebreds are generally at a higher risk of developing issues, especially hereditary ones) and are functionally unavoidable.

I like to know what I'm getting into, and this is not bad, stupid, or selfish. I wouldn't go wandering into a jungle without knowing the risks - so I don't want to take on the responsibility for an animal without knowing what I'm getting into with it.

As for owners being trained into suitable pet owners...I am never going to like surprises. I'm never going to get a puppy from a shelter because of the sheer uncertainty with it. I'm never going to adopt any animal just so I can feel like I've done something good. As a personal example, I am never going to like dogs smaller than the height of my knee; I've been menaced too many times by small dogs. I can get over my fear of them, but getting over a fear does not equate to liking something. It would be an absolutely awful idea for me to get a small dog.

So, yes, it is also about choosing the right dog for the person. I know enough about myself to know that I would be a terrible match for any very energetic dog that needs a ton of exercise, like many terrier mixes tend to be. I know enough about myself and greyhounds to know that I could live very happily with a greyhound, whether it be a puppy I raise or a retired/rescued race dog.

I would not do well with the uncertainties of a shelter animal, and it's important that I accept this about myself because I know that, for me, more uncertainty equals more stress, anxiety, and frustration for me. It's less jarring when I can learn about the breed beforehand so that, even though it's not a guarantee, I have a decent idea of what the dog will be like both growing up and as an adult.

I've done my research. I know what I want and I know what it involves. I know the health risks of my chosen breed and how to reduce the likelihood of them appearing. I know I can be happy with my chosen dog breed. For me, health AND personality are important.

---

That said, I'm out of this particular debate. I'm going to agree to disagree - I'm not going to change my feelings on the issue, and you aren't going to change yours, so I am respectfully bowing out now. c:

[silverbubblet]

I like to know what I'm getting into, and this is not bad, stupid, or selfish. I wouldn't go wandering into a jungle without knowing the risks - so I don't want to take on the responsibility for an animal without knowing what I'm getting into with it.

I am completely with you on this. I personally have looked at many shelter dogs and while they are amazing the ones I have seen come with quite a few issues I don't feel comfortable enough to handle. While I understand training is necessary and have no problems doing it, it is easier for me to train them from the beginning than trying to correct behaviors.

I also prefer larger dogs and of course most larger dogs in a shelter are of the "bully" breeds (which I hate generalizing, but topic for another day). These dogs are not allowed in most apartments or rental homes. While I hate that they get a bad reputation, they are just not the breed for me.

Moving on, I have a golden retriever and I got him from a breeder at 8 weeks old. What I love about getting a dog from a breeder is I know he was exposed to a variety of situations from vacuums, to cooking, to kids, to just about anything they could safely be introduced to. Good breeders care for their dogs and are not looking to breed just to breed, they want to further the line with good genes and do spend a lot of money on genetic testing and everything else.
Yes it is true that most goldens get cancer, there is a lot of research being done to help prevent that. Good care and careful breedings help this. It is the backyard breeders/puppy mills that give purebreds the bad rap.
Good breeders treat their animals as part of their family, as well as show and train them. I have met and talked to quite a few and have no problems picking my current dog and future dogs from breeders. I like knowing I am getting the best possible and they are always willing to help with any genetic issues that may come up.

I donate and help out and shelters when I can and have met many wonderful dogs, but honestly I love knowing that the pet I am going to receive has been given the best start in life. Call it selfish if you wish, but i like being prepared. I like knowing what I am getting into (even though all the research I did could not prepare me for my crazy dog lol).

[ShootingStar]

Purebreds are usually at greater risk of developing serious health issues, particularly hereditary ones, but don't forget that mutts can and do develop serious health issues. A mutt can present with syringomelia, bloat, bladder stones, audiovisual problems, and any other condition that purebreds can develop. Given that, what this says to me is less "mutt > purebred" and more "no one should get any dog because the potential health issues are unfair to the dog and they cost too much to treat". X:

Except that there is no evidence to suggest that MOST mutts develop cancer, as Goldens do, or that MOST mutts develop canine syringomyelia, like King Charlies do. There is a BIG difference in that, as people are knowingly breeding dogs with serious and costly conditions.
I want a friendly dog, so I'll get a golden, not caring that are they most likely going to die of cancer, is a selfish and stupid thought process. Yet many people who want pure bred dogs have it.

CAN =/= Is Likely To

Any dog can be trained if the owner is suitable for dog ownership, and most of the time, that owner can also be trained to be a suitable pet owner. If you're not willing to put in the time and effort to train the dog, then you probably shouldn't own a dog.

I'm willing to put in the time and effort to train a dog I like and with which I can get along.

I flat out don't like surprises. I never have; in my experience they're more often bad than good. I don't want a surprise dog. I don't want to take on the responsibility for an animal without knowing what I'm getting into with it. [/quote]

There are never guarantees on personality in any dog, regardless of breed. Sure, you are likely to get a friendly but terrible guard dog in a golden, a breed known for being friendly, but there are also extremely aggressive goldens out there. Furthermore, any dog has the potential to suddenly just snap, and take someones face off one day.

I'm never going to adopt any animal just so I can feel like I've done something good.

I don't know anyone who adopts just so they can 'feel they've done something good' so I'm not sure where this statement comes from.

As a personal example, I am never going to like dogs smaller than the height of my knee; I've been menaced too many times by small dogs. I can get over my fear of them, but getting over a fear does not equate to liking something. It would be an absolutely awful idea for me to get a small dog.

I also dislike small breeds, as most of them are bred NOT for the benefit of the dog, but their 'cute' levels. In my experience, small dogs tend to be very aggressive, which gets them into trouble with larger dogs, especially power breeds. Small dogs left on the streets are also FAR more likely to die than large breeds due to being weaker than most other animals.

I could live very happily with a greyhound, whether it be a puppy I raise or a retired/rescued race dog.

Since you brought up Greyhounds



Despite how I disagree with your stance on purebreds, I do commend your potential desire to rescue greyhounds, abuse against them is far too common. It is one of the few breeds I don't mind, because they're not known for commonly developing serious conditions, and they do make very good pets. They're also prone to not being very aggressive, and because they are not a power breed, even if they DO develop aggression, they're a lot easier to get under control again.

Moving on, I have a golden retriever and I got him from a breeder at 8 weeks old. What I love about getting a dog from a breeder is I know he was exposed to a variety of situations from vacuums, to cooking, to kids, to just about anything they could safely be introduced to. Good breeders care for their dogs and are not looking to breed just to breed, they want to further the line with good genes and do spend a lot of money on genetic testing and everything else.

Problem is, not every breeder is a GOOD breeder, and for the most part, people breed for money, not out of love for dogs. As long as there are ignorant people who aren't willing to do the work (which is a lot of people) puppy mills and other scum-of-the-earth will keep abusing animals to make money.
GOOD breeders, are far too rare, which is a major part of the problem.

Yes it is true that most goldens get cancer, there is a lot of research being done to help prevent that. Good care and careful breedings help this.

Except that good care and careful breeding only reduce cancer rates, they do not remove them. Furthermore, some breeders will straight up LIE in order to sell the dogs, just to make a buck.

I also prefer larger dogs and of course most larger dogs in a shelter are of the "bully" breeds (which I hate generalizing, but topic for another day). These dogs are not allowed in most apartments or rental homes. While I hate that they get a bad reputation, they are just not the breed for me.

This is a very responsible and respectable decision, though i LOVE Pitbulls and Rotties and all those power breeds- even the best nature, best training and best breeding doesn't remove the POWER aspect from the animal.
A tea-cup chihuahua snaps and bites an adult- it could be easily put back under control by most people, it's not much bigger than a rat after all.
A Pitbull? Not so much. Even super experienced dog owners risk losing control because of it's strength alone.

Unless you're Cesar Milan with your borderline super-power abilities to train and control a dog, I'd always worry about power breed owners. I know I could never handle one, and too often do idiots get power breeds and don't put in ANY work to control them. Some people even try to argue 'well that small dog or child instigated the attack', despite the dog obviously being a power breed. As a dog owner, it's YOUR responsibility to control your dog at all times, regardless of whether or not you think it could be dangerous. So if anyone thinks they might not be able to handle a power breed, they shouldn't try.
Mutts might have the genetics of power breeds, possibly, it's quite easy to tell which dogs have strength and size that could pose a challenge.

[silverbubblet]

There are never guarantees on personality in any dog, regardless of breed. Sure, you are likely to get a friendly but terrible guard dog in a golden, a breed known for being friendly, but there are also extremely aggressive goldens out there. Furthermore, any dog has the potential to suddenly just snap, and take someones face off one day.

While I do agree that there can be dogs on both sides of the spectrum, as Goldens I have seen some very aggresive goldens, but normally they are bred to be that happy go lucky breed. I will look to their upraising before I ever blame genetics.
And I do have to disagree, not dog just snaps without cause or provocation. Normally dogs give signs way before the snapping or what usually results of biting, humans just didn't see it for any reason. But I have never seen a dog just snap at an owner for no reasons that couldn't be scientifically explained. (Some dogs have been known to snap after a seizure even though they are normally happy and everything, happens in humans as well.)
While I do not obviously know every case where a dog has "snapped" most bites/aggression have signs leading up to them or the dogs had an incident in their life.

I also dislike small breeds, as most of them are bred NOT for the benefit of the dog, but their 'cute' levels. In my experience, small dogs tend to be very aggressive, which gets them into trouble with larger dogs, especially power breeds. Small dogs left on the streets are also FAR more likely to die than large breeds due to being weaker than most other animals.

Yes, I am more afraid of chihuahuas than pit bulls.

Problem is, not every breeder is a GOOD breeder, and for the most part, people breed for money, not out of love for dogs. As long as there are ignorant people who aren't willing to do the work (which is a lot of people) puppy mills and other scum-of-the-earth will keep abusing animals to make money.
GOOD breeders, are far too rare, which is a major part of the problem.

While not every breeder is a GOOD/GREAT breeder I have met many. They are not that rare and have spoken and befriended many. These people do care about their dogs and sometimes the females dogs only have 1 or 2 litters in their life, which is not true for breeders who do so for profit. Because honestly there is really no profit in breeding dogs of course unless they are backyard breeders, which the signs are a lot easier to tell than you may think.

Except that good care and careful breeding only reduce cancer rates, they do not remove them. Furthermore, some breeders will straight up LIE in order to sell the dogs, just to make a buck.

There is also a large amount of research being done to remove cancer and eliminate it in some breeds. And yes some breeders will lie, but again it comes down to doing the research into your breeders. Attending dog shows can be quite helpful in seeing the difference and seeing how spoiled some of the dogs really are.
I am not entirely disagreeing with your points, just wanted to hopefully get a little more information out there. I will try and find the links when I can. =)

This is a very responsible and respectable decision, though i LOVE Pitbulls and Rotties and all those power breeds- even the best nature, best training and best breeding doesn't remove the POWER aspect from the animal.
A tea-cup chihuahua snaps and bites an adult- it could be easily put back under control by most people, it's not much bigger than a rat after all.
A Pitbull? Not so much. Even super experienced dog owners risk losing control because of it's strength alone.

It doesn't take Ceasar Milan to train a dog, it takes patience, time and trust. A well trained dog no matter the breed will most likely never "lose control" (I am assuming biting is the action). I have met pitties and rotties that are the biggest babies and afraid of their own shadows. I believe a lot of it depends on the dog entirely and also their breeding and upbringing. While yes there are more cases of these dogs biting, it is because they are known to be strong and those who get them want that for their show of power more than anything. It honestly goes back to the other end of the leash. Humans.

As a dog owner, it's YOUR responsibility to control your dog at all times, regardless of whether or not you think it could be dangerous. So if anyone thinks they might not be able to handle a power breed, they shouldn't try.

Now I definitely completely agree with this. It is my job to train and control my dog, just like anyone else who gets a dog it is their responsibility and job to do that. That sadly doesn't always happen and my well trained dog pays for it. But yes it is completely my job to control my dog inside and outside of my home.
I have wanted to slap quite a few people who should not own dogs.

[Fenndarell]

about dogs.
I can't stand the small ones.
puppies are fine, but show me a chihuahua, and show me door while you're at it.
when I was like six, some old lady had a chihuahua in a shopping cart. Being a little kid, I wanted to pet it, so we asked if it was nice. She of course said it was, and so I slowly moved my hand toward it, for it to sniff. it growled, and lunged. It missed tearing off my thumb by about 2 inches (hurray! limbic system!) since then, I wasn't exactly afraid of them, but I hated being near them. I ESPECIALLY can't stand small dogs when they're yapping up a storm. that's when I want to kick them across a yard (hehehe) Now, don't get me wrong, I know a handful of small-ish dogs that are perfectly nice, and love me. So they aren't all bad. just an overwhelming most, in my opinion, heh.
eh, this is just my opinion, I dont wanna start a flame-war.

[zombiemittens]

I'm not really a dog person at all, so I can't 100% say I feel eveyone with everything, as I've never owned a dog nor have I cared to before. I guess if I had a dog growing up, it would be different, but I've always had cats, never had a dog.

But I agree for the most part; I really dislike when people buy others pets as a gift, especially if they don't know the person can't handle/take care of said pet. If someone got me a dog, I'd most likely have to decline, as I don't know the first thing about taking care of them and I feel that it wouldn't be fair to the dog. They should have a family who loves dogs, not one who doesn't want anything to do with them.

You are your whole pet's life. While they might not be around for your whole life, you are there for their whole life.

It's especially important that people realise this around this time of year, with Easter coming up too, since lots of people are inclined to buy their kids a pet rabbit, just because 'it's a cute Easter gift.' That really frustrates me. Animals that aren't 'common' pets, like rabbits and ferrets and such, deserve just as much love and attention as cats and dogs and shouldn't be treated as a holiday novelty. I'm sure your kid would be just as happy with a big stuffed rabbit, rather than a real one.

[kit124]

i know what you feel guys
im also a dog owner and it really annoying to see a pet being maltreated by their own owner

once i saw a n old guy kicking his own dog. i try to ask why and he said he only do it for fun

what the!!! for fun???? is that fun ah??
cant they see that their pet are the one that get hurts

i almost burst in anger, but because that guy is older than me, i still show my respect to my actions
but is there a person whose on the right mind to just kick a dog because its fun,,,i think he is only the one