MagiStream

This topic is for discussion and debate about otherkin. A few things should be noted before the discussion is allowed to begin:

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TxCat, moderator HoS

Some useful references and definitions:

Otherkin

Otherkin are a community of people who see themselves as partially or entirely non-human. They contend that they are, in spirit if not in body,[2] not human. This is explained by members of the otherkin community as possible through reincarnation, having a nonhuman soul, ancestry, or symbolic metaphor.[1] Scholarship has framed this identity claim as religious because it is frequently supported by a framework of metaphysical beliefs.[3]

Otherkin.net

Otherkin is a collective noun for an assortment of people who have come to the somewhat unorthodox, and possibly quite bizarre, conclusion that they identify themselves as being something other than human. It is also the label used by a number of communities both on and off line. (The distinction between the two is not always drawn and can lead to some confusion).

There are a number of ways people reach this conclusion, and a number of possible explanations for it. On the face of it, it is a remarkably difficult conclusion to reach, not only is the evidence scant at best, but to define yourself as not human requires defining what human means - an exercise which philosophers for millennia have failed to complete.

Otherkin Alliance

Otherkin are a group and/or subculture of people, primarily based online, who feel that some part of them in some way is not human. There are many explanations within the community as to how this is possible, some of them being spiritual, mental, social, or even genetic. There are many different types of kin- some identify with creatures or beings of mythology and legend, such as Elves, Faeries, Unicorns, ect… while others associate themselves more with animals, plants or other forces/elements/concepts of nature/existence. The term ‘Otherkin’ can also be interchangeable with the term “other soul-ed” and perhaps the second term is the most appropriate, although it is used less often. Within the Otherkin community itself is many sub-groups, such as the vampiric and therianthropic communities, although the communities themselves don’t always agree on this. Otherkin are not to be confused with Furries and Furry fandom.

List of Specific Otherkin

Suggestions for Discussion

If you identify as otherkin, how did you arrive at that conclusion? Does it tie in with your religious or metaphysical beliefs? If so, how? If not, why?

If you identify as otherkin, what kind of otherkin are you? Do you display any of those traits in the course of normal interactions with the rest of the world? If so, how do people react? If not, do you wish you could/would?

If you are not otherkin, do you believe the possibility exists? Why or why not?

For both:

How do YOU define otherkin?
Have you ever encountered someone who identified as otherkin? What were your impressions?

That's one of the things which always bugged me about the furry communities; everyone wanted to be a cute creature or a sexy predator but you'd seldom (ever) find someone who identified with a moth or a centipede or even a butterfly. The same, I found, is true in the pagan communities.

I've got some animal friends and messengers which would probably send people screaming for the insect poison:

- scorpion (still trying to figure out what he wants)
- dragonfly
- butterfly
- spider (I know what s/he is trying to teach me here but I'm strangely resistant. I guess no one likes looking at their mortality)
- millipede (has taught me a lot about not judging based on looks and taking the time to actually get to know someone before making decisions about intent and purpose)

As for my Therian status.... I was resistant to the idea but I cannot really explain some of the things which have happened otherwise. My sense of smell is very acute; I can actually track a family member through a crowded mall up to an hour after he or she has passed even if the person is not wearing perfume or heavy scent. I can smell water, particularly rainfall, hours before encountering it. At one point, lost on a hike, I used my sense of smell both to find drinking water and to get us back to the trail head. I'm extremely territorial about my food; the last time someone playfully reached into my plate for something, they got bitten. I didn't even think about it, it just happened.

Speaking of biting, my canines are elongated for a humans. Several dentists have commented on the canine-like composition of the teeth and roots and have suggested filing them down. I'm an omnivore, but I don't do well without red meat proteins...and I eat my beef raw. Eating it cooked actually disgusts me. There have been several incidents where I've gotten a nice juicy steak out of the case at a store and bitten into it right then and there, all without thinking about it (Dee or Dorie had a hell of a time getting it back long enough to pay for it).

My eyes are also special (this, like the above, has been tested and noted by qualified professionals so I suppose that might count as scientific proof). The rods and cones are more like those of a cat than a human, as are the lens shapes. I see both ultraviolet and infrared spectrum. While not truly color blind, my color perception is more in keeping with what they suppose canids can see.

I'd have written all of these off to being just my special deformed self except over the course of a decade I've met dozens of other people with similar features and issues.

The final proof, for me, was extremely embarrassing. I was indulging in a bit of self pleasure and I tend to howl or growl when doing so. We heard answering yips and barks...and discovered a male coyote out on the deck trying very hard to get inside. None of our dogs were in heat (and they're in the back of the house anyhow). It happened three more times, once when the husband had taken the female dogs with him as a sort of control experiment.

Some of it is simply play; I do it for fun. I have my own toy box full of cat and dog toys. Most of them are plushes, but I have a few chew toys (I've always had the distressing tendency to chew on things and dog toys are cheaper than treating nail infections or repeatedly buying new kitchen spoons) and some balls. Wheelchair fetch is one of my favorite games. The balls are big enough that I can either catch or I can roll them along with the foot rest.

Even so, I consider myself physically human in this lifetime. As such, I don't hate humans (don't even get that aspect of otherkin) and I don't spend my time wishing I were fully able to shift to either coyote or cougar. I just acknowledge that these are part of my spirituality and move on. Perhaps being Osage made it easier since these types of concepts are more acceptable among US Native populations.

I personally believe in Otherkin. Although I've never meone, I've started to wonder about the whole topic and how it relates to t myself. Honestly, I think that fictional stories can get carried away with what the truth may be, but I'm not completely sure what the truth is just yet. I'd like to learn now, though.

I clicked the link that said 'List of Specific Otherkin' and found it to be quite interesting. It seemed in a lot of the Otherkin, it showed Awakenings. I had an idea as to what they were, but left slightly confused. Does anyone have an explanation?

Cassowary wrote:And then I inevitably get nitpicky and ask what species are they?

... don't really have much else to say besides such, right now.

Oh, right. What are cybers?

Cybertronians are from Cybertron. We are a race of alien robots that come in various different types(ex. minibots, seekers, speedbots, exetera). There are also Techno-Organics, which are only half cybertronian. Me, my sister and Sari are techno-organics. My boyfriend Blurr is a Speedbot(who talks way too fragging much!).

Please remain respectful. Not everyone will be familiar with terms used in the discussion, especially when one term might mean different things to different groups. Using 'duh' in your statements id rude and will not be tolerated here!

-- TxCat, moderator HoS

Hi... I'm Hawke, and I'm Otherkin.

*giggles*

Ok, well, since I'm not sure what Frosteburn is talking about, I guess I'll just answer the suggested questions.

If you identify as otherkin, how did you arrive at that conclusion? Long before I ever heard the term, or knew there were others who felt the kinds of things I do, I have ALWAYS, from earliest childhood, played "let's pretend-" games where I was some kind of animal. Usually something quadrupedal with wings, or some sort of shapeshifter. I have felt wings and tail and ears and fangs for as long as I can remember. A number of years ago, I joined the Gryphon Guild and that was where I first encountered the terms Therian and Otherkin and it was like BAM- "OH! There's a word for this!"

Does it tie in with your religious or metaphysical beliefs? If so, how? If not, why? Yes and no. I am a Bible Believing Christ Follower. Some would call me a Christian, but there is so much tied up with that word, that I shy away from it in fear of being associated with something I wouldn't touch with a 100 foot pole! On the surface, I would say that my religious beliefs do not at all mesh with my Otherkin beliefs. However, I also believe that in the end of time, we will each be given a perfected body. There is nothing that says that body has to look human. I like to think that maybe I'm just more in touch with my God and my own soul and have a hint of what it may be like. That, or I just have a really active imagination. The jury's still out on that one.


If you identify as otherkin, what kind of otherkin are you? I am, currently, some kind of griffin/ dragon thing. I call myself The Hawkeburd. I do not fit cleanly into any mold. I am uniquely ME, and I change as I grow older and more mature and more experienced. I believe this to be a good thing, I don't think our form should be static, or that we should force ourselves into some preformed notion of a mold.

Do you display any of those traits in the course of normal interactions with the rest of the world? In every day life, I make a myriad of 'strange' noises. These are Hawkeburd calls, sometimes referred to as Hawkeese. There are territorial screams, growls, snarls, purrs, but also some chirps and mews, sounds associated with various emotions, etc. My eyes are highly keyed towards movement and the shapes of animals. I have a friend who recently said it was like I have a sixth sense for finding wildlife. Maybe I just know what to look for, or maybe the 'kin side actually helps.

If so, how do people react? If not, do you wish you could/would? Aside from that instance with the friend mentioned up there... Throughout my childhood, Mom always said I was a busy child with a vibrant imagination- and told my doctor (who also happened to be her boss) where he could shove the Ritalin! Most of my teenager and adult years, I'm just seen and mildly eccentric and zaney, but people tend to also feel that I am down to earth and steadfast. As long as people accept me for who I am, they don't have to agree, but don't condemn me for being all of me. Don't make me feel like I need to wear masks and hide parts of who I am. Been there, done that. Lost myself in all the masks. Bad times. Better now. Whole.

How do YOU define otherkin? I generally define it for myself, understanding that if you ask 100 people what Otherkin is, you're going to get 100 different answers. M answer goes like this. "Some part of me, isn't fully human. Maybe it's my soul, maybe it's just my imagination, maybe it's my astral form. I don't know. But some part of me is the Hawkeburd. Take it or leave it. It's just part of who and what I am, and I am comfortable with this."

Have you ever encountered someone who identified as otherkin? Particularly in the Gryphon Guild, I met a number of others. Those who were griffins, dragons, phoenixes, elves, werewolves, wolves, eagles, horses, unicorns, even a cricket- everything under the sun and stars and moon - or even multiple things at once. Most were very unique in their personal views. Some believed they used to be this and had been reincarnated as human, some believed they were this in another plane. Some believed more similarly to me. I saw people who changed what they were weekly, and I came to wonder if they weren't just making it up to be the favorite flavor of the week. Maybe they hadn't really settled into, or found their form so they were 'trying things on'. I know I did.

What were your impressions? Most of the time, I feel like "who am I to say what they feel or what they believe their soul is?" But other times... I have to admit that i am less than accepting. When someone tries to force their beliefs as irrefutable fact "You MUST have been a Gryphon in a past life" "You CAN'T be a fanciful creature because you can't prove it", but I also have issues with those who say they are a creature or race from a particular fandom. Even more so when it is a particular canon character from say an anime or video game. I just feel like, "So, you're telling me that your soul is a figment of someone else's imagination?"
(this is NOT directed anyone, it's actually the thought that I had upon first discovering that there are people who believe they are the spiritual manifestation of such characters)

Cassowary wrote:And then I inevitably get nitpicky and ask what species are they?

... don't really have much else to say besides such, right now.

Oh, right. What are cybers?

Did you mean, what species of animal? I've actually given some thought to that. I would supposed that they would be classified in the same manner as any other new discovery. For instance, the shapeshifters and Therians could be designated lycanthria sapiens. I would be lycanthria sapiens latrans concolor.

For other groups, I would assume that an appropriate Latin or other linguistic root would be used.

Cybers, for me, are those folk whose souls or astral form or personalities have meshed with something mechanical. The best example is probably that of the Transformers and Decepticons. Another example would be mechanical animals. I've a friend named Steelwing who is like that; his form is that of a clockwork golden eagle.

Hmm, I am intrigued. Before your discussion here I had never even thought of that possibility. IT could be the answer to many of my sight problems, and I haven't ever for some reason considered myself 100% human. I always used to toy with the fact I was adopted having to do with it. Unfortunately if I was Otherkin...I would probably have some bunny species or bird, for I myself, when I hit cold air can instantly and do twitch my nose, fast, quick and without thinking. I can wiggle my ears astonishingly. I have a variety of noises that no one else can make, chuurps and rolls, growls and humms, things like that.

Animals have always trusted me, and I have never once been run from or bitten in the way most animals bite and run...

If you identify as otherkin, how did you arrive at that conclusion? Does it tie in with your religious or metaphysical beliefs? If so, how? If not, why?

Actually as a Christian I am not technically knowing about that. I am a very strong lutheran, who tends to fall on the adoration of animals and such. I always thought it was just that...but animals have some connection with me.

Just comparing my self to you TxCat, I seem to do things related to an animal or animals. I have a drawing to eating and catching anything that moves, with the exception of birds and rabbits. I actually caught a mouse one day...and tried to eat it. One of my friends grabbed it, and got all creeped out.

If you identify as otherkin, what kind of otherkin are you? Do you display any of those traits in the course of normal interactions with the rest of the world? If so, how do people react? If not, do you wish you could/would?

I don't know what type I would be, for you just informed me about it. I do display some traits as shown above, and my sight...I see colours but in a different way I suppose. I don't see shades I can just know if a colour is blue or green or red...it makes it hard sometimes, and annoying...I have The opposite problem, I cannot have any peripheral vision...Most people are creeped out...I don't know. I tend to cock my head to the side when I am confused, and a lot of people laugh, even though it is something a cant help.
Some information about Rabbit sight:

Spoiler

The price the bunny pays for this remarkable field of vision is a small blind spot directly in front of his face, but forward-placed nostrils and large, spooning ears compensate for that minor loss of predator-detecting space. For an animal to have binocular vision, the field of view of both eyes must overlap to some degree. The central blind spot in the rabbit's field of view precludes a three-dimensional view of nearby objects. When your bunny cocks her head and seems to be looking at you "sideways," she is actually looking as straight at you as is possible for a bunny. As far as we know, she does not have a primate's level of depth perception at such close range.

What about color vision? In general, vertebrates have two different types of photoreceptor cells in their retinas: rods and cones. Cones confer high resolution, and, if more than one cone type is present, they also confer the ability to perceive various wavelengths of light as distinct colors. For example, we humans have three different categories of cone--their maximum sensitivities in the red, blue and green regions of the spectrum. The differing sensitivities of each cone type enable us to perceive different (visible) wavelengths of light as the colors of the rainbow.

Behavioral studies published in the early 1970's indicate that rabbits do have a limited ability to discriminate between some wavelengths of light, perceiving them as different colors. Evidently, they can discriminate between the wavelengths we call "green" and "blue." Although rabbits may not perceive green and blue the way we do, they *can* tell them apart. This means they have limited color vision, probably conferred by two different categories of cone cells (blue and green).

Well, I can't say entirely for sure that I'm otherkin, but there's just something so right about the term and what it's associated with. I don't know, maybe I'm crazy, maybe it's my active imagination [seriously, I can come up with some weird things sometimes, and half the time they only make sense in my head, the other half only makes sense within the context of that particular conversation], maybe I'm deluding myself because I have an underlying desire to be different. I won't deny those possiblities in the slightest, as much as I rathered this was the truth. Though, I sorta've doubt the last one is right- I've had anxiety all my life, so the idea of being different and therefore standing out of the crowd is terrifying. I've always done my best to just blend into the crowd, to try and make myself as small and unnoticable as possible. That might be the thing that attracted so much attention to me, or maybe I'm just that weird, but either way, people would always single me out. Often not very kindly. But again, that's getting into irrelevent detail, for the most part.

I think I'm probably a therian of some sort. The reason being that, I've always held a close connection to animals. While everyone else was off watching Ren and Stimpy, I was watching Meerkat Manor. While everyone else was playing on the playground, I was out poking at ant nests and tree roachs [the former usually ended in me being attacked by red ants, and the latter is a story I won't share now]. I also have a bit of a nack for picking out pets- at least when it comes to rodents. Whenever I go out to pick out a rodent pet, I almost always end up with real sweethearts who don't mind being messed with. Then I ended up spoiling them and they turn into rotten little brats [I should not ever be allowed to have children, I'd be a horrible mother XP]. Maybe that's just my dumb luck, I get quite a bit of that. Frankly it's a little annoying *Tries to shove it to someone else* Anyway, another thing is that I sometimes tend to do animal-listic things without meaning to, like walking on my toes and sometimes going into a sort of 'sentry mode', where I'm actively looking around and studying my surroundings, though there's often nothing there and it's just to pass time while I wait for whatever.

As I mentioned on the previous thread, I believe I might also be an energy being of sorts, or have some magical ability or something to do with auras, as, the few times I have actually meditated, I've seen all sorts of dancing colors and shapes behind my eyes. Whenever I close my eyes for long enough, they're there, just very muted because I always keep my room lit. It's only when I press my hands against my eyes for a while that they come out in full bloom. There's almost always a muted black background to it, but sometimes it'll shift to another color, usually blue. It's an interesting and pretty display- what significance it has, I have no clue, other than possibly something with my aura, or maybe my rather broad imagination. I'd believe either.

.. Reading back on this, it almost seems like a elvish sort of thing. Perhaps? Maybe? Hmm. I'll have to meditate a bit tonight, probably before I go to sleep, and see what I come up with, if anything at all. At the very least, it'll give me a moment to clear my mind and really think things over- right now, my mind is sort've clouded with the different projects I've taken on. Hopefully things will clear up in the next few weeks, or that I can at least knock off a couple of 'kin types from the long list of possibilities.

On to the questions now;

If you identify as otherkin, how did you arrive at that conclusion? Does it tie in with your religious or metaphysical beliefs? If so, how? If not, why?

Being an atheist myself, I can safely say, no, my otherkiness has nothing to do with religion. Not to say I have no beliefs, I believe in reincarnation [seriously, I just can't stomach the thought of us going no where when we die, or even being sent somewhere else. This planet is, to me, my home, and will always remain such- I don't ever want to leave.], and I believe in the spirits of nature, who help keep balance in the world and maintain the ebbs and flows of it. Said spirits can be anyone unready to reincarnate- peaceful happy folk who try to bring fortune and good will, to the evil vengeful sort who want nothing but disaster and chaos. I suppose that does tie in with my otherkiness in a way, at I believe such spirits aren't restricted to one species, but rather can have existed as many different species, however many each creature's lifespan would allow.

If you identify as otherkin, what kind of otherkin are you? Do you display any of those traits in the course of normal interactions with the rest of the world? If so, how do people react? If not, do you wish you could/would?

Like I said, therian, energy/magical being, or elven. I can't say I display those traits every day, as most of the time I just sit at my computer all day and do nothing. But, when I am up and about, typically, I can feel what I believe is my astral form. This is often accompanied by images of said form running through random terrian, fast as lightning. Though, when actually trying to run, I often end up doubled over in pain simply because my body is pretty horribly out of shape [need to convince my mom to go for more walks with me, I really miss that and I have no confidence in going on my own], one strange thing though is that, while I get the normal pains in my sides and in my legs, I also get horrible pains on my upper back between my shoulder blades, right where I always imagine my wings would be if I had any. This is probably just my imagination, and the simple fact that I'm not very fit, but I'm not entirely sold on that idea, though I'm trying very hard not to sell myself on the idea of being an otherkin either.

How do YOU define otherkin?

A non-human within a human's body. Very simple and basic definition, and that most likely stems from the fact that I only started studying this last night. I'll probably be able to go a bit more in-depth after I've looked into it a bit more, but for now, I'll leave it at that.

Have you ever encountered someone who identified as otherkin? What were your impressions?

I have'nt met any otherkin before it was brought up here, no. I've met some others who could possibly be sleeping 'kin [specifically, my cousin Lizzy], and I might try to bring it up with them at some point- of course, I won't try to tell them they are 'kin, just see what they think of it, assuming they've heard of it at all, and go from there. As for my impressions, my first thought was 'lol roleplayers, this sort of thing doesn't exist'. Then I actually looked into what otherkin was, and.. I'm not too sure how to describe it. It almost seemed.. relieving? Uplifting? I don't know, the only thing I've been able to think since I found out is that it's just right. I can't describe it, I honestly can't, it's just right. So, I'll end with that.

Phew, that was a ramble ^^; Sorry, I can get a little talkative sometimes *Meeps away*