Human Evolution

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Corvidae
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Re: Human Evolution

Post by Corvidae »

yet our simple primate 'cousins' did not and are still the same as they were when we first started evolving.
... nnnoooooo ... that is ... not how anything works. At all.

Quick example:

---------- human-chimpanzee common ancestor
---------------- / ---------------------- \
----------- humans --------------chimpanzees

Chimpanzees have also diverged from the original common ancestor. There is no point at which humans "started" evolving. All species are evolving constantly. The only reason that some morphologies remain constant for millions of years (sharks!) is because they are extremely well-adapted to do the thing they do, and aren't under strong selective pressure.

They are also not "simpler" than humans. There is no hierarchy of complexity. Evolution is not a linear progression of simple -> complex, with humans at the top. Some organisms, like the tapeworm, evolved from a more complex ancestor, and have since lost organ systems that proved unnecessary to them (in the case of tapeworms, their digestive system). Every species is uniquely adapted to fit its own niche. Humans would be very, very bad at being chimpanzees. A chimpanzee is a finished chimpanzee, not an unfinished human.
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druidgarden
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Re: Human Evolution

Post by druidgarden »

Hello,
I read on the greenman corner ( 42-hall-of-speakers/196611-greenman-corner.html) that thread necromancy is allowed, and I felt like replying to this since I have a rather different idea than anything I saw in the answers. ^.^

Does human evolution exist?
Yes, as in that all species adapt to fit their environmental pressures, or die out. Note some species that barely changed for hundreds of thousands of years, such as crocodiles and bats, who seem to have found a stable niche. I feel humanity may have hit that point too, about two hundred thousand years ago, give or take. Whether this adapting works entirely through random mutations of which some are more viable than others, and so survive and become the new standard, or through some sort of semi-conscious change through epigenetics and such mechanics is simply impossible to be sure of with what we currently know, to my standards.

Do you believe in Darwin's theory of human evolution?
I believe Darwin made a valid observation that applies to all living, reproducing entities. A lot has been added to what evolution means since Darwin's time, though.

Do you believe that humans were put here by God?
I don't see gods as creating anything material from scratch, regardless of what god it is. I feel Gods definitely have some influence on the material world though, but more through playing with chances and "randomness".

Do you think humans were genetically engineered by aliens and then put here on this planet?
I doubt whether large-scale interstellar travel will even prove possible. I think we have no reason to assume, at the moment, that we will ever travel faster (in space) than our current rockets can. Rocket fuel is a pretty specialized and processed form of fossil fuel, I'm not sure how much improvement there is to be done. We're not sure there's other life in the universe at all, let alone intelligent life, let alone that that life would necessarily develop spaceflight. And then of course wanting to travel to Earth specifically, and they'd also need to develop genetic engineering...

In short; I concede it's possible but I see no evidence for it at all, and I feel the chances are pretty slim.

Did some higher being (not God) have a helping hand in creating humans as we know them today?
What would entail a higher being? Blue-Green Algae aren't as individually self-conscious as we are, but they may well have caused the Great Oxygenation Event, and as such as a species they have played a far more key role in the shape of the planet than humanity ever has, or likely ever will. If there was ever an 'otherworld' influence of any kind, I'd guess doing anything with a particular type of ape would be very low on their list - I feel we just aren't that important from a long-term, global point of view. That we've burned over a million years of fossilized plant matter in a few hundred years to enrich a small corner of our world to the point of airplanes, internet and spaceflight, is of course very unusual for any species, but considering the amount of energy we had available to spend, we didn't have to try very hard. We may well revert to a renaissance level of technology once the oil and coal run out - and two million years from now, there will be nothing left of our make whatsoever. But the planet will still be Oxygenated by the algae...

Did we, as a species, come from outer space by way of an asteroid (meaning we started out as microbial life)?
Possibly. I feel that there is no way to tell at the moment. I think it's an interesting thing to discuss, but ultimately irrelevant. The earth is our home, and I'd argue we're a direct part of it - we are all dependant on the air we breathe, the water we drink, the food we eat. A spaceflight is just a retour flight, or death. There is nothing out there for us - not unless we learn terraforming or find completely habitable worlds, with lifeforms we can eat, air we can breathe and water we can drink. And I feel this is unlikely. Even if we arrived as a single-celled organism, hitching a ride on an asteroid, we have been adapting to earth for millions of years since then. We're completely optimized for life on earth, as far as evolution allowed. By now, our original origins are functionally irrelevant to me.

What is your view on human evolution?
I feel that evolution is best understood as a unified, planetary system of responses to responses. Especially once one accounts for, say, how the presence of trees can greatly increase the amount of water vapour in an area, and even the non-living processes such as weather become part of the cycle of adjustments. Everything is consistently seeking a balance with everything around it. Sometimes things go extinct, others thrive, for a while. We're so entwined with the system as a whole that I feel it's pointless to see ourselves as separate from it in any capacity - and we may as well rejoice in it, for it is mostly a wonderful thing.
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missshadedlove
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Re: Human Evolution

Post by missshadedlove »

I am a christian myself. BUT, I don't believe that we came from apes or the like. While I do believe the earth itself is millions of years old..i don't think life is.
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Re: Human Evolution

Post by BB8 »

I don't just believe in evolution, I accept it as fact as it is observable.
As far as god goes...I don't believe in god so he/she/it/they don't come into the equation.
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Startedraining
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Re: Human Evolution

Post by Startedraining »

I'm a biological anthropology student, I'd really like to hear others opinions about this and maybe talk about it? Believer or not I think everyone's opinion is valid~

Does human evolution exist?
I am a firm believer in human evolution, yes, I think it exists.

Do you believe in Darwin's theory of human evolution?
Darwin's theory of natural selection applied to humans as well, he made it clear that there was variation in any human population just like there was in any barnacle or finch or turtle population. His opinion wasn't that evolution applied to humans in the same way because we're conscious and at the time religion was waning but it wasn't completely normal to believe in science, but the way we evolved definitely does have something to do with his ideas.

Do you believe that humans were put here by God?
I don't really think so no, but I like to think that by some cosmic force that life came to be. It breaks my heart to think about just existing for no reason, not as a person but as life itself. Just seems kind of pointless and it physically hurts my chest.

Do you think humans were genetically engineered by aliens and then put here on this planet?
No, I don't believe so ^w^ While I don't doubt that aliens are out there, the chances of them being relatively near enough to do that is very slim.

Did some higher being (not God) have a helping hand in creating humans as we know them today?
I like to think that it started life, but not humans. Humans are just really peculiar primates.

Did we, as a species, come from outer space by way of an asteroid (meaning we started out as microbial life)?
There's evidence of bacteria fossils on mars, it's not a stretch to think that particularly tough bacteria survived the atmosphere as it was forming. We didn't become dependent on oxygen for a long while as well. I think it's a plausible theory ^w^
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Re: Human Evolution

Post by Exxthus »

Does human evolution exist?
I think so, yes. We live so long that it's hard to see it happening, but if you wish to see its effects, you need only look in a mirror and compare what you see to a person from another geographical area/background, be it their genes or just their facial features. One of my favorite human adaptations is the way we run, it's very energy-efficient.

Do you believe in Darwin's theory of human evolution?
Darwin in particular or the evolution (heh) of the theory in general, like with Lamarck, Wallace, Malthus and such? It was not his theory alone, but I guess his was the most fashionable and updated at the time or else we wouldn't still be calling it Darwinism. Furthest back I can think of is Empedokles and Anaximander, and even Aristotelian naturalism touched on it (not the Platonist bits, of course, pretty sure they were all about the immutability of nature). Then there was that whole Buffon-Linné smackdown, which is funny as hell if you find pedants squabbling to be good entertainment and I'm doing that thing again where I babble for hours about nothing in particular, why is no one stopping me. Uh. IT'S A PRETTY NICE BIT OF WORK, THE RESULT OF ALL THAT CAME BEFORE IT AND HAS SINCE BEEN BUILT FURTHER UPON, LIKE ALL GOOD SCIENCE. FEELS GOOD.

Do you believe that humans were put here by God?
I have no way to prove that, nor does anyone, so for now I'll have to go with the theory that has the most evidence and makes the most sense until we come up with another crazy idea to test and see if it has any merit, as a scientist does. If it's ever proven properly that we were created, then I'll happily update my facts.

Do you think humans were genetically engineered by aliens and then put here on this planet?
oh man that would be so rad. Incidentally, All Tomorrows is a really fun sci-fi read on some theoretical human/alien evolution in the future (navigation displays all the pages of a chapter at once, with chapter lists at the bottom). It takes place in the future when humans can edit their genes (thanks CRISPR) to change themselves to live on a terraformed Mars. Then way more advanced aliens show up, don't like that another species has messed with DNA which is kinda their thing, and all hell breaks loose.

Did some higher being (not God) have a helping hand in creating humans as we know them today?

This ties into the last two questions, and I have no way of answering them as I have no proof. There's always theories and conjecture, but none hold enough water to be valid enough for me to consider them viable even if they are really fun to think about. That said, where the hell is my hoverboard, aliens? Back to the Future promised hoverboards and I still have to rig gas tanks up to PVC boards and pipes in the garage to even come close. what is this

Did we, as a species, come from outer space by way of an asteroid (meaning we started out as microbial life)?
This one's worded kinda weird, since if we came here as microbial life then we wouldn't be considered human at the time. It's actually a neat theory and it's entirely possible. We already know that bacteria seem to do just fine in space, and comets have a fair bit of ice for adding water to a developing world. Without going back in time it's really hard to verify something like this with our current level of tech, but I'll say that it's definitely a viable idea.

What is your view on human evolution?
VERY INTERESTING. We all grew up in different places on Earth, different climates and geography, and as a result we all look different and are good at different things. Some races even have different ancestors mixed into their genetics. It means that, while we are all human, we are actually a bunch of sub-species capable of interbreeding just like different corvid birds, dogs, or equines. I'm not going to be touching much on culture and such since this is more a genetic thing. Though exceptions will always exist, especially with a population like ours, to see people being better at different things by default you need only look at the finals of an Olympic event. Great runners and climbers will often be black, weight lifters are usually caucasoid, things with dexterity and reflexes like ping-pong will be dominated by East Asian people. It can even affect the way we act and think a bit.

I'm not sure if you understand how cool this is.

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It means that you have:
  • base stats that you can start out with
  • individual stats that vary by person
  • effort stat gains that you can affect yourself throughout your life which could be anything from the culture you grow up in, to your diet, to your activity levels
and it all comes together to make you the character that you are. We are all different, good at different things, affected by so much, able to cover each others weaknesses with different strengths and that is really, REALLY COOL. Studying this kind of stuff really made me appreciate and love the human race because everyone's so neat. Not neat enough to make me stop being a recluse, but you get the idea. Hugs are still valid through the internet.

tl;dr: People are basically Pokemon and I love it.
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