Imaginary worlds in your mind? (Paracosms)

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Re: Imaginary worlds in your mind? (Paracosms)

Post by BradTheMad »

YunoGasai wrote:I'll answer the full list as soon as you reword Question 10, which I strongly urge you to do. I feel like calling it a 'delusion' is rather like shaming people who believe in their paracosmos.
I'm not reading it as shaming, it might not even be the OP's own view of things. They are clearly stated as "discussion questions". The HoS is especially made for such discussions so you will find a wide range of opinions on here that might differ greatly from yours.
I understand that paracosms might seem like reality to some people but that does not make it a reality as in the definition of one; the state of things as they are, rather than as they are imagined to be.Reality is often contrasted with what is imaginary, illusory, delusional, (only) in the mind, dreams, what is false, what is fictional, or what is abstract.
Since nobody else but the person experiencing the paracosm can experience it fully it is not reality.

The quote you refer to should be taken tongue in cheek. Adam Savage is a witty guy and also very knowledgeable in sciences.
What he is referring to is Phenomenological reality which, very basically, a person's own experiences which form his or hers own consciousness. Reality consists of objects and events ("phenomena") as they are perceived or understood in the human consciousness, and not of anything independent of human consciousness.
If you go one step further than this you'll end up with Metaphysics which question the nature of reality itself.
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Re: Imaginary worlds in your mind? (Paracosms)

Post by YunoGasai »

Edit: There, I made my original post on page 1 look less like an ultimatum.

And yet, nearly everything you said could be used as evidence in my case. They may not have intended it as shaming, as you said, nor did I imply they meant it that way, but it has been experienced that way. Reality: the world or the state of things as they actually exist, as opposed to an idealistic or notional idea of them. Notional: existing only in theory or as a suggestion or idea.

And though Adam's comment may have been witty and for humor, that doesn't mean it 'should' be taken any specific way. What he says is very true, humor or not. I provided my opinion on what I felt was wrong, I did not go on a massive snark post against them. My point is calling it delusional still feels like shaming the subject. Reality is what you experience, whether others do or not.
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Re: Imaginary worlds in your mind? (Paracosms)

Post by ElementalNovel »

YunoGasai wrote: I feel like calling it a 'delusion' is rather like shaming people who believe in their paracosmos. Your reality is what you make it, and it is no less real for some people not being in it as opposed to the other reality often referred to as 'real life'.
Hi YunoGasai! BradTheMad already did a pretty good job responding, (thanks dude!), but I'll quick clarify a thing or two and hopefully that will ease some of your discomfort over my word choice.

Question 10 was not written to shame anyone who believes in their paracosm, but the word delusion was a deliberate choice. People who believed in their paracosm but no longer do would possibly recognize and identify with the use of that word. Additionally, "delusions of godhood" is a recognized and often used psychological term referring to a scenario where a person believes that they are a god or godlike. This isn't meant shamefully either; it's just the terminology used to describe that concept.

The whole point of starting this thread was to open a dialogue on this practice, especially since I myself didn't know how common it was until recently and that caused me a lot of grief. Please re-read the posts and you'll see that no one has been shamed or disrespected for their story.

I'm actually personally really interested in your POV because no one has posted yet who believes in their paracosm and your input would be valuable, but it's also alright if you don't want to share or if you want to answer questions other than #10.

And on the off chance anyone wants to discuss some reality politics with me:
Spoiler
Paracosms are almost exclusively referred to as a product of the imagination, usually as a crucial part of a child's mental or creative development. My understanding of it is that if we are to accept paracosms as part of reality, then every child's imagination based game is also reality, and so is every story ever written or thought about.

We can argue metaphysics if you want, alternate universes and cross-dimensional travel and all, but my opinion on the matter is only that human beings are capable of awe-inducing creativity. As someone who is entirely human based in their interests, passing off that creativity as something more metaphysical or straight up mystical cheapens it.

Imagination and reality can be separate and still equally as influential over an individual, and reality's existence does not diminish the power of imagination. It just happens that due to my own experiences and research, I choose to classify paracosms as "imagination," not "reality." This isn't to say this is the only way or the right way to think, just my way. Take it as you will.
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Re: Imaginary worlds in your mind? (Paracosms)

Post by YunoGasai »

I understand that that was, as I said likely (now definitely) not your intention. When I said it had been taken that way, I meant by me, and I apologize if it seemed like I was saying others had been.

You are correct, people that once believed in their paracosms but do not anymore would, indeed, recognize and identify with the use of the word 'delusion', but the opposite is also true. People that never stopped believing in their paracosms would likely find that word rather unpleasant, to say the least. I say this from experience, as I have talked with a few people who still believed in their paracosms (at least at the time of our last discussions).

No, it isn't meant shamefully when people are referred to as having 'delusions of grandeur or godhood'. But it is taken that way, because who wants other people to hear them referred to as delusional? Sure, for people with psychological problems, it's reasonable and applicable. But when you call someone else's reality a 'delusion' it's a whole new ball game.

Take color for instance. We are all taught that specific items have specific colors. A standard apple is red, the sky is blue, grass is green. But there is nothing to say that the 'red' you see is the 'red' someone else sees. Color, while 'real' because it has been agreed upon to be so by many people, is actually not a real thing, outside of the human brain. We, humans, invented the concept of color as a way of further explaining our world. We call it real, when it is purely a human mental creation and nothing more. This has been established science for a while now.

Likewise, paracosms also do not exist outside of the human brain. Like color, they are a purely human mental creation. Yet we do not call the idea of believing in color delusional. So why paracosms? They are no less real than color.

Things like delusions, mental illness, and such, carry a HUGE social stigma. If you have stigma like these, society generally looks down on you, thinks less of you.

Hopefully this explains it a bit better.
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Re: Imaginary worlds in your mind? (Paracosms)

Post by ElementalNovel »

YunoGasai wrote: Take color for instance. We are all taught that specific items have specific colors. A standard apple is red, the sky is blue, grass is green. But there is nothing to say that the 'red' you see is the 'red' someone else sees. Color, while 'real' because it has been agreed upon to be so by many people, is actually not a real thing, outside of the human brain. We, humans, invented the concept of color as a way of further explaining our world. We call it real, when it is purely a human mental creation and nothing more. This has been established science for a while now.

Likewise, paracosms also do not exist outside of the human brain. Like color, they are a purely human mental creation. Yet we do not call the idea of believing in color delusional. So why paracosms? They are no less real than color.

Things like delusions, mental illness, and such, carry a HUGE social stigma. If you have stigma like these, society generally looks down on you, thinks less of you.

Hopefully this explains it a bit better.
I totally get where you're coming from, and I agree, mental illness does carry a huge stigma. But to add that into the argument assumes that maintaining a paracosm is a symptom of mental illness, which isn't the case, (though some may feel so, as I certainly did, for most of my experience.) Rather, paracosm play is observed in neurotypical or "mentally healthy" children and adults just as frequently as it is in those who are neuro-atypical. It has more to do with creativity than it does mental health.

Delusions, as well, I think aren't bound entirely to mental illness. A person who is otherwise neurotypical might be led to place faith in an unfounded belief for whatever reason. Look at superstitions: no one who's ever broken a mirror has really suffered seven years of continuous bad luck, but damned if we aren't all careful around mirrors anyway. Same with walking under ladders or spilling salt. None of these things are founded in any bona fide evidence, but lots of people believe in them anyway. I think an argument could be made that any untestable belief counts as a delusion, (looking at literally every religious argument ever), so it's not as bound to mental health as one might think. But I do understand and respect your aversion to the word given its history.

(I won't touch the color thing much, but I will say that color is scientifically proven to exist and is not a "purely human mental creation." What we perceive as color is our brain's receptors processing various radiations of light that bounce off a surface and in through our eyes. Unless something is damaged or genetically different, (color blindness), we all more or less perceive the same objects as same colors with only minor variations based on creativity, gender, ethnic culture, the amount of light present, and even the physical shape of our eyes. Color science is fascinating and I highly suggest you check some out! Videos of colorblind people getting corrective glasses for the first time is a great place to start!)
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Re: Imaginary worlds in your mind? (Paracosms)

Post by YunoGasai »

Adding it really doesn't though. As I said, delusions, not paracosms. DELUSIONS carry a stigma. I merely pointed out that calling believing in your paracosm delusional makes believing in it seem indicative of mental illness. Not that Maintaining one is indicative of it.

Nor did I say delusions are bound specifically to mental illness ONLY. Merely that that is how they are SEEN by the vast majority of society.

And actually, science has proven that color does merely exist in the human brain only, and has even been covered by a number of highly educated mathemeticians, scientists, and physicists. Not outside of it. Yes we see wavelengths of light, but we do not all interpret them the same way. You can't even begin to say 'we all see more or less the same things as the same colors' because that is all wrapped up in QUALIA, which is as of yet incommunicable from one person to another. I have checked it out, quite extensively, actually.

A quick quote to clarify things.
"The external world does contain light with mixtures of wavelengths, but color is purely constructed and contained within the brain. For example, light waves have properties like wavelength, polarization, coherence (or not) and intensity. These objectively exist. But color is not one of those objective properties - colors are created only in our brain and are purely subjective."

Again, when people get corrective color-blind glasses, their qualia, their 'personal perception' of color changes. But you still can't definitively say they see the same red you do.

Qualia: the internal and subjective component of sense perceptions, arising from stimulation of the senses by phenomena. Subjective, not objective.

Subjective: based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions. Personal.

Objective: not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
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Re: Imaginary worlds in your mind? (Paracosms)

Post by MoonandDew »

1. Do you now/ did you ever have a paracosm?
I used to.

2. If you no longer maintain your paracosm, why did you stop?
Because I guess I moved on to other things, and forgot about it.

3. About what age were you when you began worldplay? About what age were you when you stopped, if you have?
I have no idea, and 12.

4. Was there a triggering event that caused you to start a paracosm, or was it just something you always sort of did?
I kinda always just did it.

5. What is/was your paracosm like? Did it have a name? What was the setting like, and who were the characters? Was there a storyline? Please share whatever you feel comfortable sharing.
Not comfortable sharing.

6. Were you an active player in your paracosm, or were you a passive observer on what the characters there did? If you were active, what were you like there?
Active. I did what I always wanted too.

7. Did you ever tell anyone about your paracosm? How do you feel about having one? i.e., was it a big secret that you were guilty about, or were you open about sharing it with others?
No. It was secret, but I didn't feel guilty.

8. Did you create your paracosm alone, or with siblings/ close friends?
A close friend.

9. How did you play in your world, (by writing, by daydreaming, at night before you fell asleep, etc.)
Acting it out/imagining it.

10. Were you ever deluded as to the reality of your paracosm, (believed it was a real place you traveled, delusions of godhood, etc.)
No.

11. Has your paracosm played an important role in your creative life? How?
Yes. It has helped me with creativity.

12. Did you know about paracosms before now? How did you learn about them?
No. Just now.

13. Did you/do you know anyone else who has/had a paracosm? How did you meet? How did you end up sharing information about your paracosms?
No.
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Re: Imaginary worlds in your mind? (Paracosms)

Post by ZaraTina »

I know it's been like 2 months but WHATEVER

1. Do you now/ did you ever have a paracosm?
Yes. I've been having it (by that I mean the one I consider to be my major one) for around 3 years by now, but the whole world really started to flourish in detail and interest around 7 months ago.

2. If you no longer maintain your paracosm, why did you stop?
I think the only reason I'll ever stop is if it distracts me from my day-to-day tasks.

3. About what age were you when you began worldplay? About what age were you when you stopped, if you have?
Hmmm.... I've had multiple different worlds in my head. 3-4, actually. It all started in grade 2, I think... And I've been having one ever since. But before it was something I didn't really think about a lot, and most of it was similar to the human world. The one I have right now if probably the most detailed and long going one, and it's something I think about practically all the time- If you see me zoning out, then I'm probably thinking about it.

4. Was there a triggering event that caused you to start a paracosm, or was it just something you always sort of did?
No. No specifics, anyways. I think it was just because I got bored with my normal daily life, and wanted something more interesting and fun. I wanted a world where I was in charge, where I am the most powerful and made all the rules.

5. What is/was your paracosm like? Did it have a name? What was the setting like, and who were the characters? Was there a storyline? Please share whatever you feel comfortable sharing.
Well, yes. It's quite a big world, so I can't explain it all. It's basically a world with 2 realms- A human and a fantasy realm. The people living in the fantasy realm aged much slower than humans, and they were responsible for wiping out humans every 400 000 years or so, to prevent the earth from getting too poluted and affected by humans. After sometime, they would then leave some of their race there to repopulate the earth with more humans.
Recently, there has been a boost in the human's magical energy, causing them to have the potential to control their own unique "super power". As a result, there's been multiple prophets over the years. They all made one prophecy, that no one can really figure out. It warned the upcoming doom of humanity, and how they can possibly prevent it. However, it was extremely vague, and people took it as "hey look, this group of humans are going to destroy humanity, and this group is going to save it!" The world has people stating it's complete nonsense, and people thinking it's true.
Later, a supposed war was held in the fantasy realm- a war between the people fighting to prevent the doom by clearing out the group the prophecy supposedly pointed to, and people who thought that was a stupid idea. The war was held by many authorities in the fantasy realm, and whoever joined were given super natural abilities. Or rather, they awakened their abilities. Then there's this huge plot twist and blah blah blah spoilers.

6. Were you an active player in your paracosm, or were you a passive observer on what the characters there did? If you were active, what were you like there?
My personal "Character" (really she's just me) is sort of both. she's the puppeteer- She pulls the strings behind the character's actions, and controls every aspect of them- Their personality, their thoughts and their emotions. She's kinda like the ultimate god- not just one that created everything, but one that controls everything. Without her, the world would cease to exist and time would freeze for them- because no longer is there somone to make the people in it do things.
In a way, when you see it from her side(AKA my view) She's just a bored kid who wants to have some fun. But in the character's eyes, she's a twisted manipulator that turns back time and watches them all suffer for the fun of it. She makes everything bad happen to them, and she refuses to let them go past a certain point in time that would result in them getting their "Happy ending" and instead forces them to go through it all over and over again, just so she can watch over and over again. She doesn't want her story to end, she doesn't want to let go.

7. Did you ever tell anyone about your paracosm? How do you feel about having one? i.e., was it a big secret that you were guilty about, or were you open about sharing it with others?
Only one other person in the world know about it, and that's my best friend. she actually helped me develop some ideas and inspirations and was a huge part in encouraging me to do something more about it.

8. Did you create your paracosm alone, or with siblings/ close friends?
Like I said, I created it basically on my own, with some occasional ideas from my friend.

9. How did you play in your world, (by writing, by daydreaming, at night before you fell asleep, etc.)
Daydreaming, writing, drawing, and thinking about it every moment I'm conscious.

10. Were you ever deluded as to the reality of your paracosm, (believed it was a real place you traveled, delusions of godhood, etc.)
No... I always knew it was some fantasy I had in my head, but I wish it was real.

11. Has your paracosm played an important role in your creative life? How?
Yes. The characters in it are characters I am very attached to, and I horseshoe them into everything I do. Stories, pictures and everything in between. In fact, they're the reason I even started drawing- Because I wanted to design my characters.

12. Did you know about paracosms before now? How did you learn about them?
Nope. Just today.

13. Did you/do you know anyone else who has/had a paracosm? How did you meet? How did you end up sharing information about your paracosms?
My friend(the one that helped me) Also has somewhat of one. Her one's rather new, but it's neat. we met up about 1 and a half year ago when our teacher put us next to each other in class. We've been best friends ever since.(TBH she's kinda the only friend I have) We started talking about my world cause we were bored, and didn't know what we should talk about. Since then, it's kinda became a tradition to just share our ideas and worlds with each other.
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Re: Imaginary worlds in your mind? (Paracosms)

Post by madusa »

#1 Yeah, I have many. There's usually changes when I join a new fandom. Currently its a kind of quirky town-ish setting called where all the folklore is real.

#2 skipped, see above

#3Around 5 to 6. I was so young I can't remember. And I never stopped.

#4 Nah, just something I did. I guess I was kind of lonely.

#5 Like I said earlier, it kinda changes. First it was Strawberry shortcake (gimme a break, I was six). Then it was scifi, kinda like shadowrun (I didn't know about shadowrun), then high fantasy, I had a pokemon phase, got into Harry potter, and the current one is a night vale styled world where all forklore is real. There was a ghost story I actually wrote which was set in the town called X (Sorry I forgot the name). It was a nostalgic story about character coming home. This current one is an evolution of the X world. There's a new storyline in it which mostly has my 4 characters travelling along the land, visiting liminal spaces and other weird things. There's a load of characters usually, like an ensemble cast. Several mini-storylines have emerged in X, usually among the supernatural factions. Its very nostalgic, confusing and sometimes the other worlds just bleed into it. L(forgot name) is one of my staple characters. And there was a in-universe creepy lullaby in X called 'Dear Jezabelle'. X is the most developed and I revisit it several times. It has another village next to it which is unnamed, but is said to be a town of witches.

#6 I switched perspective between both. I'm either like a shounen hero, deeply cynical or just plain weird. I have a quirk, anytime a character gets a romance I switch perspective and only focus on the previous character passively.

#7 Everyone knows I'm a daydreamer but they never really ask so I never tell them.

#8 Alone.

#9 Daydreaming. A lot. But it never stops me from working.

#10 Nah. But I feel nostalgic because I never really feel home. Though that could because I moved.

#11 Yeah,it gives me good settings. And the folklore twist made me do more research.

#12 I knew about worlds in people's minds from xkcd, but I didn't know the name. Or I forgot.

#13 Don't know anyone. Update: I asked my best friend and its seems they have a paracosm.
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Re: Imaginary worlds in your mind? (Paracosms)

Post by Th3R4r3stPepe »

1. Do you now/ did you ever have a paracosm?

I used to.

2. If you no longer maintain your paracosm, why did you stop?

I started playing D&D and I forgot about my own creation

3. About what age were you when you began worldplay? About what age were you when you stopped, if you have?

I started when I was about 6 and I stopped at around 15.

4. Was there a triggering event that caused you to start a paracosm, or was it just something you always sort of did?

I believe it started when we moved from a quite rural area to a very dense city are due to my fathers work. I feel as though this was quite a shock to my 6 year old self.

5. What is/was your paracosm like? Did it have a name? What was the setting like, and who were the characters? Was there a storyline? Please share whatever you feel comfortable sharing.

I actually still have a detailed map consisting of two continents, the west and the east. it was called Mordorane, which I believe was inspired by Mordor from the Lotr. The entire of the two continent were rural with many small towns and parishes. I don't remember many names but I know that the people I created had names.

6. Were you an active player in your paracosm, or were you a passive observer on what the characters there did? If you were active, what were you like there?

I think I was an active player taking part in my own adventures. I was almost like myself but I was brave and took risks.

7. Did you ever tell anyone about your paracosm? How do you feel about having one? i.e., was it a big secret that you were guilty about, or were you open about sharing it with others?

I told my best, and only, friend about it. Her and I kept it between ourselves. I believe that this is the point I started to write stories about myself in the paracosm

8. Did you create your paracosm alone, or with siblings/ close friends?

I initially created it alone, but I shared it with a friend who helped it grow

9. How did you play in your world, (by writing, by daydreaming, at night before you fell asleep, etc.)

All of the above really. I still have pictures and drawings about my paracosm.

10. Were you ever deluded as to the reality of your paracosm, (believed it was a real place you traveled, delusions of godhood, etc.)

I'm pretty sure I knew it was false.

11. Has your paracosm played an important role in your creative life? How?

I believe that my paracosm has made playing D&D a lot easier and more fun for me. It has also helped me to imagine Monsters and Beast and so on. Although I am still pretty bad at art.

12. Did you know about paracosms before now? How did you learn about them?

I did not know about the term paracosms, but my friend who I mentioned earlier said she had a similar world, so I knew I wasn't alone.

13. Did you/do you know anyone else who has/had a paracosm? How did you meet? How did you end up sharing information about your paracosms?

My best friend had her own paracosm. We met in school and ended up sharing our paracosms when i showed her drawings of myself in my paracosm.
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