MagiStream

ya they need to be kept where they are because they ether have nowhere to go,don't know how to survive in the wild,are hunted too much or are injured or sick or about to have there babies

*Feels my love for zoos and aquariums strengthen tO MAXIMUM POWER.*


As someone whose nearly unattainable dream is to run their own private zoo, I support well-managed zoos and aquariums. However, I believe it is best to try to stray away from capturing socially and emotionally advanced creatures like cetaceans and elephants. We need to be breeding them in captivity instead. I pretty much support keeping any animal in captivity. Animals that seem to not do so well in captivity, such as orcas and elephants, should still be in captivity. Orca captivity is about half a century old. The first captured orca, Wanda, was sickly and died two days after being brought to her tank in 1961 [ Death wasn't caused by illness. She smashed her snout into the tank wall. ] The second capture was Moby Doll, who lived for 87 days. If you look at where it began and where it is now, you'll see that it improved greatly. Lolita and Corky II are 50. Kasatka and Ulises are 39. Katina is 40. Kalia gave birth to the first 4th generation captive-bred orca in 2014. I wish for all this to continue to improve. Take a look at the vaquita... a small porpoise with a population of 30. 30... Thirty........ THIRTY. Only recently have they been considered to be captured and brought into captivity for them to be safe from being tangled in nets. This is risky because little is known about this creature and they have never been in captivity before. Capturing them should have been done loooong ago. Back when there was about 1000. It would have been no where near as risky. Study the ones we have caught, and then eventually we start breeding them in captivity. That way, even if they did become extinct in the wild, we would have a decent breeding population in aquariums. Then, in the future, we may be able to breed the animals to be released. This is also why I think we should keep trying even with animals that simply die in captivity, rather than just do poorly, such as great whites [ though, there actually has been a small improvement to great white captivity. One stayed in captivity for five weeks, when previously they wouldn't go nearly as long. I would go into the reasons why they don't do well in captivity and possible but expensive ways to fix the issues, but I don't want this post to get too long... ] Its sad, but its something we need to do in order to preserve the species we share this planet with.

As with keeping wild animals as pets... Go ahead. Have one as a pet. Copied and pasted from my profile as I don't want to type it out again: Exotic pet ownership is fine by me, no matter the animal. As long as the owner has the knowledge, experience, time, money, and passion to care for it properly and are able to acquire the animal in an ethical manner [ e.g. doesn’t hurt the environment and wild populations, doesn’t cause excessive stress to the animal, etc ] and can keep themselves, the public, and environment safe from the animal, they should be allowed to have it. Regulations for owning certain animals or breeding them are extremely important, in my opinion.

Something I'd like to add though is that if an animal is endangered and is being kept as a pet... say, a Spix's macaw, then I believe it is the owner's duty to put forth effort into the conservation of that animal. For example, use their animal in an educational show, or take part in a breeding program.

Completely banning an animal in not only unfair to those with the passion to care for them, but feeds the black market where they cannot be regulated. I myself plan on keeping more exotics. I have a ball python and a leopard gecko [ both have genetic mutations that effect their patterns and skin colors ]. My dream animal is a rusty-spotted genet, and I promise you that I will not get this animal if I am not 100% certain that the animal will be properly cared for and will live a long, healthy life.

Also, on a side note: Animals don't care about being free. They do not have any concept of ~freedom~ or ~the wild~. Freedom is an illusion anyway. I can even get all philosophical and say that we are all the government's pets.

Another note: Unnatural isn't always bad. Sometimes unnatural things need to be added into a captive environment in order to replace anything that the animal would do in the wild that cannot be replicated in captivity. Like the orca shows at SeaWorld. This is a form of enrichment and exercise to their not-so-ideal lives.

Anyway, that is my personal opinion on zoos, aquariums, and exotic pet ownership. I used to support animal rights, so I can understand how people feel when they say they don't support zoos and that the animals need to be free.

• - Spyder, an orca and snek obsessed Magi.

Seaworlds only solution for their currently captive orcas would be sea pens which are basically described as an island surrounded by a large net. Which might I add is not feasible in terms of cost as it could cost more than a trillion dollars or more. As nice as it would be to do that it would cost more than anyone could pay just to keep the animals happy. It's just too costly. Most of what we know about captive Orcas and sea life comes from Seaworld a place which half the world thinks is mistreating their orcas when they are just doing their best to care for them.

Blackfish the movie spread a lot of false or downright inaccurate information that movie practically ruined Seaworld because peopel assumed Marineland where the footage was obtained was Seaworld however Marineland is Canada. So it is not in any way associated with Seaworld.

Seaworld holds itself to higher standard than Marineland in canada but because of blackfish Seaworld has been given a bad reputation and it doesn't deserve it because it's not even the park that was in the blackfish film.

Megatronus wrote:Seaworlds only solution for their currently captive orcas would be sea pens which are basically described as an island surrounded by a large net. Which might I add is not feasible in terms of cost as it could cost more than a trillion dollars or more. As nice as it would be to do that it would cost more than anyone could pay just to keep the animals happy. It's just too costly. Most of what we know about captive Orcas and sea life comes from Seaworld a place which half the world thinks is mistreating their orcas when they are just doing their best to care for them.

Blackfish the movie spread a lot of false or downright inaccurate information that movie practically ruined Seaworld because peopel assumed Marineland where the footage was obtained was Seaworld however Marineland is Canada. So it is not in any way associated with Seaworld.

Seaworld holds itself to higher standard than Marineland in canada but because of blackfish Seaworld has been given a bad reputation and it doesn't deserve it because it's not even the park that was in the blackfish film.

Marineland? I'm sure you mean Sealand? Sealand was the the ones that deprived them of food and kept them in the small modules at night... which I cannot blame them for as they did that so people wouldn't cut the nets and release them. Doesn't change the fact that it is a cruel practice that should be avoided. I'm not sure if Marineland is a bad facility overall, but I do know that they aren't great when it comes to orca care... which is one of the reasons their lone whale, Kiska, should be moved, but due to the actions of animal rights activists, the transportation of orcas in and out of Canada has been banned. I am glad SeaWorld managed to get Ikaika out. You could say that he could have been company for Kiska, but as far as I know they didn't really get along.

Anyway, I agree completely that moving them to seapens is not a great option. I must add that these whales have been living in quite sterile conditions. So moving them to ocean water where they will be exposed to pollution and foreign pathogens can cause them to fall ill. [ E.g. After Keiko was released, every winter he fell ill with pneumonia and eventually succumbed to it. ] Moving them to seapens will also be quite a stressful journey and change for the whales. These whales live in separate pods and all have their very own order and matriarch. Moving them together will cause their order to change... unless we make three separate seapens, which makes the seapen idea even more costly. So why go through all the expenses, stress of the move and change, illness, and possible separation of the whales when we can just work to improve the pools they are in now? These whales don't even really care whether they are in a pool or a seapen. It is no different for them... except one is clean and clear and the other is dirty and cloudy.

A lot of Blackfish's information was indeed false, but some of Blackfish's imformation wasn't so much false as it was misleading. For example, they say that orcas can live to be 100. That isn't false, but they made it seem as though that is how long they typically live. The average is actually 30-50. Males live to be around 30 while females will reach their 50s. Another thing that is true is that the average for captive orcas is significantly shorter than wild whales [ I haven't watched Blackfish in a while so I can't remember if it was stated or not, but I hear it a lot ]. The thing is... it isn't accurate. When determining the average for wild whales, only whales that have reached maturity are counted. A whale that dies at 4 isn't. Which makes since, as younger whales are not independent and their deaths do not accurately represent the lifespan of an orca. When it comes to captive orcas, they do count the younger orcas. They even go as far as counting the miscarriages and stillborns. Another factor that comes into play is the facilities that aren't so great at caring for orcas. Orcas that have died in a poor facility, such as Sealand, will negatively effect the captive orca lifespan average. Plus, as stated before, orca captivity is still young, so only recently have they been living to the average of wild orcas. And say 100 years was the average... orca captivity is only 55-56 years old... so ... yeah.

But yes, SeaWorld is not the bad guy here. They aren't great on a corporate level, but they are leaders in marine mammal research and rescue.

I think that breeding programs for endangered species are helpful because they keep an animal alive that would otherwise be dead. This allows us to study them and learn more about why there died out in the wild. However, I think that zoos should have more regulations regarding the health of the animals. I realize that there are regulations already in place, but some of the zoos in smaller towns are not as well taken care of as their larger city counterparts.

When it comes to exotic animals as pets, I am not as sure what to think. It seems stupid to have a lion or a bear as a pet since they are not domesticated, however, if a bear cub is found injured in the wild and you take it in and nurse it back to health, that would be a good thing. But people buying pets for status just seems wrong.

spyder wrote:As with keeping wild animals as pets... Go ahead. Have one as a pet. Copied and pasted from my profile as I don't want to type it out again: Exotic pet ownership is fine by me, no matter the animal. As long as the owner has the knowledge, experience, time, money, and passion to care for it properly and are able to acquire the animal in an ethical manner [ e.g. doesn’t hurt the environment and wild populations, doesn’t cause excessive stress to the animal, etc ] and can keep themselves, the public, and environment safe from the animal, they should be allowed to have it. Regulations for owning certain animals or breeding them are extremely important, in my opinion.

Something I'd like to add though is that if an animal is endangered and is being kept as a pet... say, a Spix's macaw, then I believe it is the owner's duty to put forth effort into the conservation of that animal. For example, use their animal in an educational show, or take part in a breeding program.

Completely banning an animal in not only unfair to those with the passion to care for them, but feeds the black market where they cannot be regulated. I myself plan on keeping more exotics. I have a ball python and a leopard gecko [ both have genetic mutations that effect their patterns and skin colors ]. My dream animal is a rusty-spotted genet, and I promise you that I will not get this animal if I am not 100% certain that the animal will be properly cared for and will live a long, healthy life.

I second this wholly, and I'll add that I fully support the idea of domesticating more species. We already have dogs, cats(sortof), ferrets, rats, horses, cattle, and foxes(also sortof)... why not move on to other large creatures like... idk, cheetahs? The ancient Egyptians did it so yeah. Start a domestic breeding program to keep them from dying off completely.

It depends on the definition of exotic - some states consider *ferrets*, which are up there with dogs and cats as far as how long we've had them domesticated, to be exotic pets.
I think species which have the potential to become invasive and/or destroy native biodiversity through hunting should not be permitted, including outdoor cats. (Incidentally, due to massively increased contact with parasites, outdoor cats have much shorter lives than inside ones... don't let your cats outside.) I also think that there should be significantly more punishment for releasing captive animals like goldfish in environments which will not immediately kill them. People in the US are woefully ignorant about how animals work. I'll leave it at that, rather than descending into the pit of frothing rage that is my feeling about soccer moms who buy their kiddos pets they have no intention of caring for or disposing of properly.

I have mixed feelings about the keeping of potentially sapient animals like African grey parrots. I think they're really cool, and their pretense in the community can be a powerful force for conservation. I also think that keepers should have to be licensed to show they have the proper skills and resources to give the creature the interesting life it deserves, and to write the fate of their parrot into their will. (Of course, the second part there causes me some fridge horror when I remember we don't require that for other sapient, sentient beings people like to have because they're 'cute'...)

Agentofthe1Truth wrote:I second this wholly, and I'll add that I fully support the idea of domesticating more species. We already have dogs, cats(sortof), ferrets, rats, horses, cattle, and foxes(also sortof)... why not move on to other large creatures like... idk, cheetahs? The ancient Egyptians did it so yeah. Start a domestic breeding program to keep them from dying off completely.

YAASSS domesticated cheetahs sound amazing. However, cheetahs are one of the few animals I cringe at when seen as a pet. This is because, unless it is a rescue, there is no ethical way to obtain a cheetah. The majority of cheetahs in captivity are wild caught. They are EXTREMELY difficult to breed in captivity, so as of now, I believe cheetahs should belong in zoos working on their conservation.

Have you heard of the Russian domesticated foxes? They are not fully domesticated, but are much more dog-like and tame than the wild foxes. Is that what you were thinking of when you mention foxes?

Bluewyrm wrote:It depends on the definition of exotic - some states consider *ferrets*, which are up there with dogs and cats as far as how long we've had them domesticated, to be exotic pets.
I think species which have the potential to become invasive and/or destroy native biodiversity through hunting should not be permitted, including outdoor cats. (Incidentally, due to massively increased contact with parasites, outdoor cats have much shorter lives than inside ones... don't let your cats outside.) I also think that there should be significantly more punishment for releasing captive animals like goldfish in environments which will not immediately kill them. People in the US are woefully ignorant about how animals work. I'll leave it at that, rather than descending into the pit of frothing rage that is my feeling about soccer moms who buy their kiddos pets they have no intention of caring for or disposing of properly.

I have mixed feelings about the keeping of potentially sapient animals like African grey parrots. I think they're really cool, and their pretense in the community can be a powerful force for conservation. I also think that keepers should have to be licensed to show they have the proper skills and resources to give the creature the interesting life it deserves, and to write the fate of their parrot into their will. (Of course, the second part there causes me some fridge horror when I remember we don't require that for other sapient, sentient beings people like to have because they're 'cute'...)

I see "exotic" as any animal you wouldn't see in a pet store. For example, sharks (like smooth-hounds or black-tips, not epaulettes or cat sharks. ), genets, civets, anacondas, crocodilians, and wild felids and canids. The technical definition for exotic is just something that isn't native to a certain area. So for where I live, wild ferrets, macaws, and ball pythons are "exotic". In Australia, exotic animals are banned. By exotic, they mean any animals not native to Australia. So that would include ball pythons and some species of parrot.

The domestic ferret is a subspecies of the European polecat. They live across Europe, so if you live in the US or Canada, they are technically "exotic". But dogs are a subspecies of the grey wolf... and I don't know of any place that considers dogs to be "exotic". To be honest, I don't think any domestic animal should be labeled as exotic. Domestic ferrets and rats have been domesticated for a long time. Not nearly as long as cats or dogs, but far too long for them to be called exotic.

Places ban animals because they can be invasive, yet I don't see any place banning cat ownership. Domestic cats are, arguably, the most invasive species in the world. :/

I agree. Keep your cats (AND DOGS! Two of my neighbors let their dogs run loose.) indoors! They damage the environment. If you want your cat to enjoy the great outdoors, teach them to walk on a lead or build them an enclosure. My sister used to have twelve cats and she built an enclosure for them. They had a kitty door for them to come inside and out whenever they wanted.

YES, people that get an animal "'cause it cute" or "it looks cool" are the MAIN cause for invasive species and neglected animals being dropped off at shelters. Keep people that don't know what they are doing away, and things would be soooooo much better. I don't care if they want a cat, dog, fish, lizard... people need to be checked over before they get ANY animals. Breeders need to be regulated too, that way only responsible people are breeding them and giving them out to people. Responsible breeders will only give their animals to responsible people.

I agree. People that keep them in the average bird cage all day and only interact with them an hour a day is not a suitable owner. PARROTS ARE SOOOOO SMART, but there are many people that are totally dedicated to their birds and create custom enclosures for them that seem like they came straight from an AZA accredited zoo. Licenses are super important for having most animals and for breeding pretty much any animal. However, I don't like the idea of some politicians controlling who can and cannot have an animal, as they seem to do everything wrong. They'd need to look at people who actually know what they are doing and dedicate their lives to the animals to determine who can and cannot have a particular animal.

I may be wrong, but isn't the lifespan of the African gray parrot in captivity shorter than in the wild? I'm not the kind of person to look at that and say "Wow, these animals shouldn't be in captivity". I say "Wow, we really need to learn more about this animal and improve its care in captivity". The most intelligent animals in the world, as far as we know, are birds (primarily parrots and corvids), elephants, primates, and cetaceans. These are the most difficult animals to keep in captivity, but it isn't impossible to do so. We just need to keep learning about them and improving their care.