MagiStream

I find the problem with saying that owners should act to stop their pets breeding being a problem is that sometimes this is simply realistic.

While everyone wants their cat to have kittens of their own you do not want your cat to contract feline aids due to the fact that a female cat in the area was on heat.

But their is also the problem that boy cats, if left un-neutered, will stray far further than a neutered cat, this can be a problem. I live on a farm and therefore there is a low of heavy machinery acting a distance from my house, therefore the male cat's natural instinct to stray might and in one case has killed them. Therefore it is definitely in the cat's self interest to be neutered.

But also in terms of free breeding in cats, this is a huge problem both for the spread of feline aids but also for killing cats and creating strays, perhaps this is not a problem everywhere but both the cats we've adopted (Artemis and Kuro) were both due to this problem and kuro was the only one of his litter to survive along with his mother also dying, even while under the care of professionals.

Massively in favour of neutering, particularly as domestic animals cross-breeding with wildlife is already a problem here. Trap-Neuter-Release is the kindest way to reduce feral colonies, since the animal can live out its remaining lifespan without contributing to overpopulation. One unspayed animal with only one initial mating can produce a huge number of offspring over the years. Second Chance has charts for dogs and cats: http://www.secondchanceforanimals.org/s ... neuter.htm

There are also animals where neutering is the only ethical option, for example, if you own ferrets, an un-spayed female will often die when she goes into heat unless she's bred. (Their bone marrow stops producing red blood cells during estrus, and they remain in that state until bred).

So, after reading through this thread, it seems that most of the support is going towards pro spaying and neutering, and I agree. Fixing your pets is something I'm considerably passionate about, but with all due respect to the other side of the argument. I volunteer at an Animal Shelter that earns profit to remain open from Grooming, and am exposed to my fair amount of animal-related shenanigans on a semi-daily basis, and don't plan on throwing a buncha lame nerd facts in your faces that you've already seen in this thread.
As with all debates, it's important to be educated on your side as well as the other.

There's plenty of Pros, as so kindly pointed out by everyone, so I want to discuss why some wouldn't spay/ neuter their dogs/ cats.

First off, Show Dogs. Show Dogs cannot be spayed/ neutered. This is because the original purpose of showing animals was to have their breeding stock evaluated. Therefore, if an animal is fixed, they can no longer produce more stock, which means there's no further reason to show them. Additionally, the textures of a dog's coat is altered if they're fixed, which would make the competition unfair or whatever.

The cost. Getting your pet fixed is fairly costly for some families. You may argue that they just shouldn't get a damn pet then, problem solved. Right? Well, there's still millions of homeless animals, and it's better to give one a home with the same risk anyway then leave it to wander the streets, where it could possibly harm a child or your precious chihuahua.

Breeders are a heated debate that is often mentioned with fixing your pet. Some families may've had a traumatic experience with a shelter dog, which're at the end of the day fairly unpredictable. Certain families are better off buying a dog from a reliable source where the creature will have a predictable temperament.

Another interesting point to mention is the cosmetic appearance of your dog having its balls still there. So long as pet owners are willing to keep their dog under control, having an unneutered guard dog with massive testicles is much more threatening than one lacking some family jewels.

The Subject of the thread is asking if you find fixing animals to be morally correct or not, and I think that no, it's not. But most things aren't, and life can't always be rainbows and sunshine, but fixing dogs and cats is a necessary step to keep the population under control.

Also, lastly, the way you're all throwing around fatal/ seriously threatening diseases makes me question if I'm on WebMD or not.
We get it, things get sick. Geez. Just bathe your dog and provide a somewhat clean environment or something occasionally. Problem solved.
If your animal is surviving even a year longer than the average, of course it'll eventually get sick and die. Things don't just 'die in their sleep'.
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And remember, be careful what organizations you donate money to! Some of the commercials containing those sad dogs don't actually go towards what you think!
Please do research before donating!

Almost 0% of donations to The Humane Society of The United States goes towards animals, and they are not affiliated with any shelters.

Some tips for donating-
-Contact the Charity directly. Avoid talking to telemarketers, and try to speak with volunteers or employees instead.
-Ask where your Donation is going. Legally, the Charity is required to tell you how of your donation is actually going towards the cause.
-Get physical proof if possible. Even a brochure about the organization will do. This will help validate the Charity is legitimate, and ties in with doing your research.

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I hope I've provided something that didn't put you to sleep which also conveyed my passion for the topic.
All things considered, all three of my dogs are fixed, and all are rescues.
If you've got any questions, feel free to PM me, but please don't smack talk me too hard about my opinion voiced over the Internet.

Just putting my own opinion out there...
Personally, I would spay/neuter my pets in the future. For one, there are already so many homeless pets that deserve a home to call their own. And also, if you're not going to breed your pet, it is best to spay/neuter to prevent any infections. And I speak with some experience on this. When I first got my dog, I didn't fix her because I wanted her to have puppies. Eight years later of still waiting to breed her, and she got an infection in her uterus that resulted in an emergency surgery to remove it. Turns out her uterus had been full of puss and if we hadn't taken her in when we did, she could have died.
Just my thoughts on the topic.

TwoThousand, I think you and I agree.

I have had to bite my tongue over the man who told me he didn't have his dogs neutered because he couldn't afford it but then at the time we were standing outside the local animal charity's shelter with the large "Free Spay/Neuter" banner over the door, posters, and people handing out flyers. I suggested it was his chance, and he kind of stammered. (They figure it is cheaper to pay for the treatment now than deal with the puppies/kittens down the line.)

TwoThousand wrote:Another interesting point to mention is the cosmetic appearance of your dog having its balls still there. So long as pet owners are willing to keep their dog under control, having an unneutered guard dog with massive testicles is much more threatening than one lacking some family jewels.

Is this a good time to mention they make falsies? There are prosthetics available for the purpose.

I will be honest, this has always been a big issue for me. Btw I only have information on dogs and not very much on cats.
But I have done a lot of research and was a dog trainer for a while and have seen more than I care to admit. Honestly the thing that creates the most problems, are the humans who hold the other end of the leash.

Anyway I digress. I believe it is completely ethical to spay or neuter an animal as long as it is done ethically (anesthesia, etc). It helps protect the animal in general. With the testosterone levels decreased in males they are less likely to escape to search out a dog in heat (dogs sense of smell is ridiculous and it scares me sometimes where my dog finds food lol). While I have read reports that neutered a male dog before 2 years old can effect their joints, I still believe neutering and more importantly TRAINING your dog is important.
It does of course protect them from testicular cancer... but that is rather self explanatory. Duh. And while it can help with those crazy behaviors it is important, it is more important that you aren't letting your dog get out and create more of an overabundance of puppies. If you are not able to care and raise puppies you neuter your animal. I personally think it is as simple as that. It is the easiest way.

As for the affordability issue... ok I get that. My dog was special and was Cryptorchid (one testicle did not descend) so of course the vets had to go searching for the other one. 800 dollars later
So yeas I get that. But at the same time this is hereditary normally and can happen, but not common. I think it is more that the people who make the excuse of having no money probably shouldn't have gotten a dog. I know that sounds ridiculously harsh and will be honest and say I probably should not have gotten my dog. Pets can cost a lot, that is just how it is. My dog had that wonderful operation, skin issues, stomach issues, as well as gotten bit by another dog. And that doesn't include all the tests in between. I am sure I have spent more on his health and my own. If you cannot afford to care for your animal, do not get one. While I technically cannot afford it, I also plan for these things. I build up savings and have a cushion so I do not suffer. Just small things.

As for breeders and shelters, I am happy they require animals to be neuter before going home. It takes some of the pressure off new owners. (which another topic I think there should be a huge screening for potential pet owners). They don't have to worry about all the things that can happen when a dog gets pregnant or anything like that, they get to enjoy the pet without the hassle of puppies/kittens etc.
Quite honestly I believe we should neuter some humans, but apparently that is "unethical"

I believe the benefits of fixing a pet far outweigh the cons. As much as I believe my dog is part of my family, he is not human. He is in essence my "child" and I do what I believe to be in his best interest. That is the best way I can explain my point of view. I do my research and go with the best choice of care laid out in front of me by healthcare professionals. Just as if I were to have my own children I would do the same thing. While removing organs is a bigger deal, children eventually grow up to be human adults, while pets do not mature enough to think as humans do. I know that sounds horrible, but pets do not grow up and leave to make their own way in life, they are forever dependent on those who care for them and know nothing else.


Ok honestly there is a lot more to cover with this topic than I thought.

Putting big animals like horses, cows and medium sized life stock under for a spay is ridcious because it's so invasive most won't wake up. its why the males are neutered because it's less invasive, and still prevents pregnancy. NOTHING should be fixed when it's still growing. IE a eight week old puppy or kitten. They should be atleast six months old, and with cats usually only the females need fixing. Yes males roam, but a unfixed tom cat is safer because that testosterome is there to help it build up muscle so it can defend its self. a tom neutered as a kitten doesn't really have a chance to fight off coons, dogs, feral/domestic cats. I used to have a fixed tom who would disappear for a week, come back banged up all to hell and meow at me like nothing happened. He was fixed , but just liked to roam and was clever enough to undo the locks on windows to let himself out (I have the kind that slide sideways not up or down) So there really wasn't anything I could do to keep him inside. I didn't worry about it because he wasn't intact and couldn't cause any pregnancies and was fixed later in kitten hood after he'd had time to grow.

Really a lot of the "but it prevents pregnancies!!!!" stuff is invalid. Just ask your vet for a birth control shot for your cat or dog. Unless it's to treat aggression I don't understand why people think removing such important hormones from their pets is healthy.
animals should be going to a vet anyway routinely as it is to get checked over. They can't tell us what's wrong or when they feel sick.

if they're fixed too young their bones don't grow right, they can stay legthargic and get over weight. Which causes other problems too. The "spay spay spay!!!!" thing seems to be mostly american.

And it's not working either because there's still huge amounts of feral cats and dogs.

*is taking a vet assisting course currently and decided to slip in here*
Uhh.. You know eight months* is the age where female puppies on average get their first heat, right?
Well, I don't know if this has already been mentioned, but it is indeed a thing that the spaying and neutering of an animal helps to prevent the animal from developing ovarian, uterine, and testicular cancers, on top of correcting behavioral issues with the animals. And well.. the argument of "testosterome" being there to help the animal build muscle in order to protect itself since it is an outdoor animal.. well.. I mean if we want to talk about inhumane I think I would like to mention the fact of you basically saying "I need my animal to be tough so it can protect itself from the potential dangers I am choosing to expose the animal to, with the knowledge that this animal could live to be 12 to 20 years, but since the animal will be an outdoor animal it's life expectancy is 5 years." And the matter of the windows somehow being easy enough for a cat to unlock.. Why not replace the locks? They sound kinda unsafe- Animal's life vs New locks on window?

Yeah, those hormones are important, but their main importance is for reproductive reasons.

And well yeah, there is still a large amount of feral cats and dogs because of the large amount of people that don't spay or neuter their animals, the people that get animals without thinking about training or discipline, and the people that don't see how big of a commitment the animal really is. Not to mention the fact that population growth in dogs and cats is exponential, especially due to the fact of the average litter being more than just two animals, so even if 4 animals are spayed and neutered, all it takes is one litter of 6 puppies to be at replacement-level fertility rate.

Yeah, we push the "spay spay spay!" thing because we have upwards of 70 million dogs, like.. two per household.
And if there is the issue of the animal not getting testosterone or estrogen needed to grow (I know may be more of an issue in larger breeds of dogs) then why not give them testosterone and estrogen supplements? They are confirmed to be cheaper than the birth control shot, which by the way isn't yet available in the US for dogs and would require 16 to 20 million dollars and a 10 year study for the FDA approval ( http://www.spayfirst.org/dog-birth-cont ... pulations/ ), and the one for cats that I found would need repetitive, year-by-year vaccine since in the first year it covered 97% of cats and made them sterile, but by the 5th year of the animal's life less than a third of the animals were sterile. ( http://www.futurity.org/one-dose-contra ... -for-cats/ ) But this article also says that the shots here lower the production of sex hormones, such as estrogen, progesterone, and testosterone... So even if the animal gets a shot instead of being neutered it would lower the testosterone that helps that animal build muscle and develop and etc.

http://www.aspca.org/pet-care/general-p ... r-your-pet
And this organization website here says that it doesn't cause the animal to get lethargic and overweight.. That's a matter of lack of exercise and overfeeding.

*correction, I had previously accidentally put weeks instead of months-

Sparky70144 wrote: Uhh.. You know eight weeks is the age where female puppies on average get their first heat, right?

I think you meant months, not weeks. Six to eight months is a common time for many dogs to have the first estrus, with some starting as early as 4 months and some starting at 12 months or older.

Creosote wrote: Really a lot of the "but it prevents pregnancies!!!!" stuff is invalid. Just ask your vet for a birth control shot for your cat or dog

While some places may have such injections/treatments, I do not know of any here that are used. Or I should say, the ones I've heard about have side effects including diabetes, uterine infections (which can kill) and mammary cancer. So, they are not recommended. In researching quickly, I saw an injection (that still has breakthrough risks) that was pricey and also had side effects, but it was occasionally used. For my knowledge, what drug were you referring to?

Rainwater wrote: I think you meant months, not weeks. Six to eight months is a common time for many dogs to have the first estrus, with some starting as early as 4 months and some starting at 12 months or older.

Omg- Yeah, thank you for catching that for me- Yeah, I meant months.