Roleplay Character/Art Theft

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Do you think Art/Character Theft is bad?

YES! BOTH!
67
88%
No! Neither!
0
No votes
Yes. Art is, but not character.
2
3%
Yes. Character is, but not Art.
1
1%
Who cares?
6
8%
 
Total votes: 76

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Sinh
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Re: Roleplay Character/Art Theft

Post by Sinh »

TheXDarkXDragoness wrote:I'm saying if you went and posted a picture of Fluttershy from MLP, it is not theft because it is a widely distributed show, and that is a thing to be expected when you are a widespread company. Think. If MLP fans are not allowed to write fanstories and draw the characters and post their pictures they have 0 fanbase now. But personal characters are not meant to become spread out, and are for personal use only. Widely distributed characters are not personal characters. Commercial characters are followed by a separate set of rules than personal ones.
Thanks for clarifying.
I've already agreed with you that it doesn't make sense for a company to try and stop their fans from doing fan things, but I find the claim that companies should expect that kind of thing, while people publishing their personal characters should not, to be problematic. Where do you draw the line between personal characters and "commercial" ones? Not in the act of publishing or widely distributing in itself, I assume, because posting your personal character artwork on DA could easily qualify for that. Some people are even offering commissions that depict their personal characters interacting with the commissioner's personal characters, so unless you're willing to exclude those from being personal characters, commercial use won't do either. What if someone has a webcomic going about their personal characters, which becomes so popular that it is eventuall published in print, perhaps even sparks the founding of a company? Suddenly not a personal character anymore?

Fan art is fan art, why would fan art of someone's personal character not be ok, provided that it is indeed fanart i.e. clearly labeled as a fan's depiction of this awesome character chreated and owned by so and so? Taking someone's work and claiming it as your own or not commenting on where you got it from is something else entirely. Perhaps the fact that MLP is so widely known allows us to be more sloppy in making clear that this is just fan art, because saying "I drew fluttershy! Look!" is enough to tell everyone where that character came from, but I can't find any in principle difference to personal characters here.
Every character in existence was created by someone at some point and someone out there is bound to be attatched to this character.

Raneth wrote:I'm actually curious about all this because I can't seem to wrap my head around art and its uses and such. I feel like things get into thorny grey areas very quickly. For example:

Someone uses an image off of a stock photo website for a project, or gets it through a royalty-free website (say, shutterstock). Let's say they use it in a collage. Then someone else decides to copy the image from the collage and use it for something else. It's still a royalty-free image, so is there harm there in using it if its been paid for once? Who owns the rights to the collage image, shutterstock or the collage-maker? How do people prevent the image from getting paid for once and then propogating all over the internet?
I'm only really familiar with German copyright law, which tends to be a little more strict (that is protective of the artist) than others, but from what I've seen so far, the basic principles are always about the same. I'll try to give you an idea, but take it with a grain of salt.
Note that I'm not making any moral claims here, just suggesting ways to handle such situations while keeping out of any grey areas as far as possible. Nor am I giving any kind of legal advice, only lawyers should do that. This is just what I would feel comfortable doing as an artist myself who has actually bothered to read her homecountry's copyright law.
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Of course, if someone uses a stock photo, it's ok for anyone to uses that same stock photo for their work, but they should get it from the place that provided the stock photo, not copy it out of someone else's work. How would they know which of the images used in that collage were ok to use otherwise? The artist may have taken some of the photos used themselves and those may not be free to use.
As a rule of the thumb, the artists agreement is by default required for the use of anything they created, unless you're just using it for practice and intend to leave it in your desk drawer and never publish. They may state that it is free to use for anyone, in which case everyone who knows about that is free to use it, but it is never safe to just assume something is free to use because someone else used it - they may have a special agreement with the photographer that doesn't make the image free to use for anyone else.
Raneth wrote: If there's a photo just sitting out there on the internet with no information about artist/photographer or anything, how does one figure out if its free to use or not?
The rules of the Hall of the Arts forum on here state this one very nicely:
"If you cannot find a resource's copyright or usage permission information, do not use that resource."
It's sometimes sad to never get a chance to at least ask for permission to use a particular photo, but if you can't track it, there's no way to get it. Chances are that the person who put it there in the first place didn't have permission to do so, or the photo would not be floating around without a snippet of copyright information.
Raneth wrote:What about reference images? If someone, say, decides that their character looks really similar to a certain image, can they post that as a reference and say "this looks similar" and leave it at that without claiming any ownership of the image? Or does the reference image have to be something the person owns?
That depends. If posting that image means uploading it to some image hosting website and then posting it to a forum, then no, that shouldn't be done without permission.
If the person was to merely provide a link to the place where the artist has published the image in question without making any further claims to it, I think that would be pretty unproblematic.
Raneth wrote:Can someone take a piece of art and completely re-imagine it in a large enough way that it becomes something new? Like taking a photograph and using it as the reference for a sketch or something? What if they take the photo and use a program to "sketchify" it? When is it okay versus not okay?
That's a good one. Something like this is in principle possible, but again these cases are extremely hard to judge. There are vague guidelines about the re-imagined piece having to have its own creative value above/independent of that of the original image. Just re-drawing a photograph you like, no matter how well executed, will most probably not do the trick here, slapping a "sketchify" filter on certainly won't.
It's always safer to just use free to use photographs for that kind of thing, just to be sure.
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Re: Roleplay Character/Art Theft

Post by TheXDarkXDragoness »

Fanart is fanart, and I, personally, accept it. But if the rules of a character state to not use it, do not. If the said person made a company, it would be a commercial one, if they ask for it not to be used more, just as personal enjoyment for the owner, it stays personal. At least, that is my opinion. I live by American copyright laws, and breaking copyright is against the law. I think that what you are saying is pretty accurate on why something would be right as well.
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Re: Roleplay Character/Art Theft

Post by Scream »

I admit I just read the first post as of right now. I will be mostly responding to that.

Not all roleplayers steal characters and art. I am pretty sure that's not what the maker of this thread or anyone is saying, but it's so strongly put I felt the need to stare that. Not to mention it was never specified which kind of roleplayer is being talked about here. There are roleplayers that stay on sites like Magistream, ChickenSmoothie and Eldemore. There are roleplayers who are on specialized forums based around and entirely for roleplayers. There are also ones who privately rp or rp on things like Second Life. In that widespread medium, not everyone steals stuff.

I know from experience at a lot of forum RP's they use celebrities as character play by's. They must be famous and they are only for a visual. Most sites encourage that your character is unique and does not look one hundred percent like the celebrity. Also the art and graphics manipulation is credited all the time. A popular rule is if you didn't make it, you credit it. And the people who use other peoples photo's of celebrities use high quality photoshoot photos and they credit the source and photographer. Other RP sites that are similar use anime and manga characters as play by's. The same rules apply. They have a large list of taken play by's and their corresponding anime/manga is always listed.

Though, I must admit the most character left I see with the particular section of roleplayers I've described so far is when they blatantly plagiarize pop culture. For example someone used the character Atlas from Now You See me. Name and all. Or someone uses Dean Winchester from Supernatural with a different name but the same face and almost everything else. But stealing characters from one another? I haven't seen much of that.

The roleplayers I mostly see ripping images off Google are ones who RP on sites like this or Chicken Smoothie. It's another reason I cannot stand RPing on sites like these most of the time. That and more than five people posting in the same thread pisses me off to no end... but this isn't about my opinion on where to RP. I honestly believe these roleplayers need to stop doing that. They can't just take something and stick it on something else and call it theirs. Even if the writing is unique.

Honestly, I believe credit should be given where credit is due. Be unique, no one has to steal from someone else. I am absolutely paranoid of someone stealing or ripping off my characters from FurAffinity or other places. It's why I won't post art on my DeviantArt. I've heard so many horror stories and my roommate has had so many characters stolen or ripped off. I don't think people should be afraid to share their art.

My advice to anyone who thinks that just because they write a personality or history for a character that it's entirely theirs. It's not if you rip it off. And it is just as obvious as the theft of a visual character.

My brain hurts and I'm running on coffee and fumes. I'll likely add something else later, but honestly... it's not hard to be original. It's okay to take inspiration, but never outright rip something off.
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Re: Roleplay Character/Art Theft

Post by snowflakeseal1234 »

I get really ticked when art/role play character theft occurs. Especially when the thief denies it. I mean, can't they just be original and use their brains?
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Re: Roleplay Character/Art Theft

Post by Camron927 »

I don't get it. XD
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Re: Roleplay Character/Art Theft

Post by Sourikus »

Camron927 wrote:I don't get it. XD
Been following this topic, so basically.

1. People copy others' art.
2. It's wrong because they are copying.
This art is considered the original owner's intellectual property.
3. But there are people who draw inspiration from the original piece.
Is this okay if they give some credit to the original artist?
4. Somebody copys a "copy" so whose property is it now?
:facepalm:

1. People base their role play characters of someone else's.
2. It seems lazy because the creator had actually put some amount of effort into creating their character.
So it looks unfair.
3. And they can deny it.
Often this happens subconsciously, so they wouldn't know. But this occurence can make some people quite annoyed, to say the least.
4. Or they use other people's art. And that's where it starts to become something else totally.
A rule of thumb: You didn't make it, you credit it.
But in the virtual world a lot of this gets lost.

That's basically my interpretation of the scenario here.
What we need to stop/prevent would be the intellectual property theft. But it will be difficult.

I'm not simply speculating, but...
Spoiler
There needs to be a distinction between those imitations, and those who draw inspiration.
Note I say "Imitations" because they do not credit a source. However if the creator allows it, and you actually credit them, you should be all right.

Anybody has any opinion on this?
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Re: Roleplay Character/Art Theft

Post by snowflakeseal1234 »

Sourikus wrote:
Camron927 wrote:I don't get it. XD
Been following this topic, so basically.

1. People copy others' art.
2. It's wrong because they are copying.
This art is considered the original owner's intellectual property.
3. But there are people who draw inspiration from the original piece.
Is this okay if they give some credit to the original artist?
4. Somebody copys a "copy" so whose property is it now?
:facepalm:

1. People base their role play characters of someone else's.
2. It seems lazy because the creator had actually put some amount of effort into creating their character.
So it looks unfair.
3. And they can deny it.
Often this happens subconsciously, so they wouldn't know. But this occurence can make some people quite annoyed, to say the least.
4. Or they use other people's art. And that's where it starts to become something else totally.
A rule of thumb: You didn't make it, you credit it.
But in the virtual world a lot of this gets lost.

That's basically my interpretation of the scenario here.
What we need to stop/prevent would be the intellectual property theft. But it will be difficult.

I'm not simply speculating, but...
Spoiler
There needs to be a distinction between those imitations, and those who draw inspiration.
Note I say "Imitations" because they do not credit a source. However if the creator allows it, and you actually credit them, you should be all right.

Anybody has any opinion on this?
I believe that it's just wrong. Even copying someone's art style, I mean. Unless you both have the same art style, of course. But it's hard to prevent, as kids are always looking for a way to get famous, and normally art thieves are either kids under the age of thirteen trying to rack up fame, or people who just don't know any better. It's not considered theft if you give credit, however. People just tend to ignore rules. It's impossible to change anyone who's mind is focused on something such as stealing other peoples' art works, I believe. I've seen way too many people stealing furry artwork and starting huge fights. It's just the Internet, and the Internet will never change.
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Re: Roleplay Character/Art Theft

Post by SmaugTheGolden »

Personally, I think that I haven't really expected much from the roleplay images. I mean, in an average RP, it's really helpful to have an image of what you imagine your character looking like. Mostly, when it comes to human characters, it's anime stuff, which I'm not really sure if it was just taken off of google, or made for the occasion. I do admit, that it ticks me off when someone takes a picture of a well-known character, like your example of Dean from Supernatural, and just changes their name. I don't really see much of a point in doing that, because most people already know what character that is, and it not only is infringing copyright, but it ruins the roleplay character itself.

There's definitely a problem with roleplay art theft, but for the most part, with images that you're not sure where they came from, it's conflicting. One, because you don't know anything about the image, and two, that roleplay images are necessary, and usually using lesser-seen images is helpful in describing your character. Roleplays aren't big things that make money off of made-up stories, they're just things people do for fun. It might be helpful to have a website where people can create roleplay images for people to use, even if that's a crazy idea. Not everyone is capable of creating thier own RP art, and I think that's most likely the source of the problem. :t-shrug:
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Re: Roleplay Character/Art Theft

Post by Sourikus »

SmaugTheGolden wrote:Personally, I think that I haven't really expected much from the roleplay images. I mean, in an average RP, it's really helpful to have an image of what you imagine your character looking like. Mostly, when it comes to human characters, it's anime stuff, which I'm not really sure if it was just taken off of google, or made for the occasion. I do admit, that it ticks me off when someone takes a picture of a well-known character, like your example of Dean from Supernatural, and just changes their name. I don't really see much of a point in doing that, because most people already know what character that is, and it not only is infringing copyright, but it ruins the roleplay character itself.

There's definitely a problem with roleplay art theft, but for the most part, with images that you're not sure where they came from, it's conflicting. One, because you don't know anything about the image, and two, that roleplay images are necessary, and usually using lesser-seen images is helpful in describing your character. Roleplays aren't big things that make money off of made-up stories, they're just things people do for fun. It might be helpful to have a website where people can create roleplay images for people to use, even if that's a crazy idea. Not everyone is capable of creating thier own RP art, and I think that's most likely the source of the problem. :t-shrug:
I hardly ever do art for RPs, because I hardly ever RP. Except with good friends, and we don't bother with images :yarly:

However, you do have a point with it being wrong. :t-shrug: But I'm sure you also see the difficulty with prevention too :(
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Re: Roleplay Character/Art Theft

Post by Scream »

SmaugTheGolden wrote:Personally, I think that I haven't really expected much from the roleplay images. I mean, in an average RP, it's really helpful to have an image of what you imagine your character looking like. Mostly, when it comes to human characters, it's anime stuff, which I'm not really sure if it was just taken off of google, or made for the occasion. I do admit, that it ticks me off when someone takes a picture of a well-known character, like your example of Dean from Supernatural, and just changes their name. I don't really see much of a point in doing that, because most people already know what character that is, and it not only is infringing copyright, but it ruins the roleplay character itself.

There's definitely a problem with roleplay art theft, but for the most part, with images that you're not sure where they came from, it's conflicting. One, because you don't know anything about the image, and two, that roleplay images are necessary, and usually using lesser-seen images is helpful in describing your character. Roleplays aren't big things that make money off of made-up stories, they're just things people do for fun. It might be helpful to have a website where people can create roleplay images for people to use, even if that's a crazy idea. Not everyone is capable of creating thier own RP art, and I think that's most likely the source of the problem. :t-shrug:
For your last bit about a site that makes rp art... there are at least five (off the top of my head) big role play resource sites out there who make graphics and codes for people to use. They're of everything from celebrity human play by's to anime and manga. They give credit and manipulate photos and crop them for others to easily use. They have thread trackers for all the art they do in this way and people that take their art onto other sites just link back to them or their tracker.

The problem is that on sites like Chicken Smoothie, Eldemore or here... they don't really have that. Most people it's ok for them to just rip something off google images. It's like they type in "anime guy" into google and pick a generic one they like and put it in there like no one else has seen the darn thing before. :sweat:

There's a reason I RP mostly privately or on an actual RP site that use the resource sites and stuff. Also a reason I haven't posted any of my anthro art or original art pieces of characters I own is because I'm completely paranoid of someone stealing them. I get nervous posting anything to dA but I'm trying to get over that by using a dA and stuff. I just wish people would use their own ideas and not feel the need to try to rip off someone else. I've actually had someone use a character of mine in one of their stories... they gave me credit, but they butchered the character. They went so far out of character for them it was just horrible. They refused to take the story down or change it. So I find myself having to tell everyone never to use my characters for anything ever. I even get scared about fan art. I know most of it's just my anxiety... but still.
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