MagiStream

While your intentions sound pretty pure, xSya, and while I understand your argument "I feel that we all just kind of exist and some of use have parts that allow us to procreate and produce more children. I recognize masculine and feminine in certain people but I don't see gender or even sex of those individuals.", means that you are trying to just see people AS PEOPLE and not as a gender, I have to disagree slightly because some people DO have a gender identity and it is IMPORTANT for them to be seen as a male or as a female or as something else.
If it didn't matter, then there wouldn't be so many transgender people going through medical transition, because they could just present how they like, society wouldn't care, and they would never have to submit to painful and miserable surgeries to make their bodies the way their brain needs them to be.

Or to simplify, imagine you are on a desert island, there are no other humans, there is no media describing gender roles for you, there are no clothes, makeup, etc. for you to 'display' your gender with, there is only you surviving as an animal. And as you live your life alone and free and hunting for your food and gathering seaweed and making paintings with your hands on cave walls, what kind, or what gender of animal would you be?

Some people have a definite answer to that question. That is the question I finally deeply asked myself and thought about honestly and when the answer came back from my mind I knew I had to transition even at such a late age (I was 24 at the time).

While I WISH that society didn't care, or didn't see gender, or saw multiple genders, and that everything was equal, some people still DO have a gender. I DO have a gender and I need to be recognized as such, no matter how I choose to decorate my body or how I dress, whether I follow one society's gender roles or another, or no rules at all, at the core of my identity I need to be seen as my gender.

I think I'd like to join in on this topic. As it stands, at the moment I'm extremely conflicted about the gender/s I assign myself with. It's a long story but I'll say something else first.

I think a large part of the aspect of how people look at the topic of non-binary genders depends on 3 main things that the person has faced.
1) Their personal assignment of gender, be that the one they are born with or another.
2)The way the were raised to look at society
3)Whether they have known or been close to anyone who had assigned themselves non-binary.

It comes down to if people as individuals have come to have both open-minds concerning extremely personal topics as well as whether they understand exactly what one means when they say they relate to a non-binary gender group. It's the entire "It's a choice" concept. To someone who hasn't had to personally deal with it, whether it be themselves or a close person in their lives, they may not realize just how much of "Not a choice" it is. Especially for those who do relate to their born gender just fine and so go about life having fairly normal relationships. It never comes into question for them unless someone they know happens to be non-binary, in the same concept most straight people don't spend a lot of time thinking about the concept of being gay or bi. It just isn't them and they pass it off until someone they know happens to be of a different orientation.

Another hard thing about non-binary genders is, as I stated, how you were raised to look at society. Maybe your parents or someone else taught you it wasn't okay to think like that, that it meant something was wrong with your head. Now personally, I think that's harsh and I really am glad that I wasn't raised in that situation, but maybe you were. If you agree with that concept and aren't trans or non-binary than it never raises up as a big problem...but if you are. That makes it extremely conflicting and worrying.

I don't think it's wrong. I think it isn't a choice. I think it's very real, and in the very least know it for myself. I spent most of my life conflicted. I'm a junior in high school with a chronic illness and every other problem under the sun it seems, but this is the only one that really bothers me. Growing up, I knew something wasn't right. I wanted to have adventures and fight dragons when all the other little girls wanted to be the princess. I had long hair. I hated it. I don't think I'm gay, but bi? Yeah probably. I sorted that out for myself in give or take 7th or 8th grade. But I still didn't feel right knowing that. In freshman year I cut my hair down. I never felt so good in my life. But I was also heinously depressed.

My point to this story? I didn't want to be that person. I panicked. I wondered time and time again what was wrong with me and what I was. I didn't know about trans or non-binary genders then. I knew I was female...but I was going insane because I didn't feel like a girl. I hated the way my body looked in anything that wasn't jeans and I liked wearing men's clothes to women, but I liked wearing make-up and I definitely liked boys. Except I didn't just like boys. I hated it. I still do in a lot of ways. I still haven't talked to anyone about this, I prefer to keep it to myself and avoid the judgment, as it seems I'm judging myself enough for the whole town committee. Flirting with people can be strange; it can make me dislike the entire concept at times and a lot of the time, companionship sounds great but romance doesn't. It's soo easy to feel ugly, to pick at things that aren't really the problem, and to ultimately dislike myself.

So, my point is, I don't think it's a choice. I don't think it's fake. I think it's something that knowing what it is and figuring it out is only half the battle. The controversy and politics of it is so irrelevant to the person having to deal with it because they know it's real for themselves at least. And I think that's enough if they really know it to be true. I know it is for me and I'm still trying to figure out what I am or where I stand. I prefer "It" or "he" over "she" any day, in fact it's to my misfortune I was born "her" and have very few "her" days.

Anyway, now you have my viewpoint and my story so you understand where it came from. And if you have any advice as to helping me figure out what gender I am, it's most appreciated As it stands, I am just so done with being female.

What gender do you recognize as/what pronouns do you use?
I was born a female, but I identify as a Female-to-Male transgender. He/Him/His pronouns.

How do you feel about non-binary genders?
I feel like they're normal. Granted I didn't grow up around them, but from a rather young age, I knew that there were people who were able to have a sex-change surgery and such. I realized it when I was fairly young too, when I was 13-14.

Do you thing gender neutrality when not talking about specific individuals is important?
I think that gender neutrality as a whole is important, whether or not there's only 2 genders or multiple genders. People get judged a lot for just being a boy or a girl, and that alone is not okay. If I could just hit a magical button and it'd let me do whatever, I'd ask for gender neutrality.

kingcactus wrote:
Gender is like make-up. Some people wear it because they feel incomplete without it, people who don't feel comfortable being assigned/identifying as male/female, while others go without because they feel fine the way they are and feel comfortable being assigned/identifying as male/female. You can choose to wear it (how much is up to you) or to go without. It's about personal comfort, and what makes you comfortable is entirely up to you.

honestly the best analogy ive ever seen and completely describes how i feel as a nonbinary trans person.

i feel like the trans community is really stuck on the binary and they dont think of ppl who fit exactly into mtf or ftm as *actually* trans. the fact that i was identified female at birth and that i dont want to be 100% male all the time makes other trans ppl uneasy and they dont like to think that im trans. i feel like i was supposed to be born male but sometimes present as a girl. i get very bad lower body disphoria and depression related to it. the fact that im fine with having a chest makes some binary trans ppl say im not *actually* trans. im so tired of this. i feel like theres no community for someone who wants to have been born as a feminine boy, and i often think that i wouldve been happy being born intersex.

being trans isn't always about being uncomfortable with your body. a lot of trans people, including myself and my friends, come to learn over time that you can still love your body and feel comfortable identifying as trans, or a gender besides the one you're assigned at birth.
i'm genderless (formerly ID'd as agender, basically the same thing though). being afab and growing up with a lot of internalized misogyny, i hated having breasts, a wide butt, and a high-pitched voice. i wanted to look flatter and and androgynous because those physical traits are always linked to femininity.
as i unlearned all of that internalized crap, i came to realize that i don't really care about my body at all. i can be genderless and have all those things and that's fine, because my gender isn't defined by my body. the only time i ever feel uncomfortable in my own body is when people purposefully ignore my identity (this is only after i tell them, which doesn't happen IRL a lot).
my friends, who are both trans men, feel the same way. they would rather not have a body that society defines as female, but it doesn't cause them nearly as much stress as it once did.
the whole "transness is always defined by how much you struggle and how uncomfortable you are in your own body" is a load of crap to me, especially because then you get people who are "trans critical" and think that if you don't hate yourself every minute of the day, you can't really be trans. or because you're non-binary and you don't experience dysphoria, then non-binary genders are fake and a grab for attention. (which, i actually DO sometimes experience body dysphoria when people see my real body; i don't experience it when i'm alone).
there are also people who say that all trans folks want to be cis, which is not true at all. a lot of us are proud to be trans, are pretty friggin annoyed when people try to make generalizing statements like that. it's fine if you want to be cis as a trans person, that's totally understandable, and it's just as fine if you don't want to be cis, and are fine being trans.

so yeah that's my opinion.

Hey, figured I should drop in my two cents here.

I'm agender, but I really don't care about pronouns. The only ones I don't like being used on me are it/its, and that's because I feel like those are moreso reserved for objects or lower-class animals than humans. I came across this realization about a year ago while educating myself on nonbinary genders when I found information on being agender and suddenly realized "well hot diggity darnit that's me". I'm still not out to my parents, and I'm not sure if I ever will be since they seem resistant to the idea of any genders outside of male and female existing.

Honestly, I feel like there should be more education on nonbinary genders. They can be daunting to wrap your head around if you've had no prior education, but once you think about them for a while, they make sense. Gender is less of a binary and more of a spectrum. Hell, even if you want to bring up the argument that "well you're either born a boy or a girl!!", some people have mixed genitals, and some people have no genitals. According to the outdated idea that sex=gender, what would these people be?

I feel like the world would be a better place if we put more emphasis on sexuality and gender-based education. Ignorance breeds ignorance, but ignorance is also curable through knowledge.

What gender do you recognize as/what pronouns do you use?
I am genderfluid. That means I don't identify as my biological gender (female), because I vary a lot in what I feel like. Some days I feel very feminine and want to wear a pink dress and flowers in my hair, while other days I feel masculine and wear a beanie, sweatpants and oversized sweaters. When I am feeling masculine I usually wear a tight sports bra to press down my monster-breasts (haha). While some days, I just feel somewhere in the middle. This has always been a part of me and my personality. When I was younger I had many male friends, and with them I usually played with action figures and built stuff in the woods, but I also had female friends. With them I liked to play with dolls (not barbie dolls though, the hair on their heads made me puke) and we had tea parties. But I basicly use the pronoun "she", because then I don't need to tell every single person I talk to about my gender-identity.

How do you feel about non-binary genders?
I completely understand it! Since I am genderfluid, which goes under the "queer" category, and it is basically a non-binary gender.

Do you thing gender neutrality when not talking about specific individuals is important?
I don't reaaaally know if I understand the question... Haha, so I'll just say that I don't know xD

What gender do you recognize as/what pronouns do you use?
I'm genderqueer and I still use she/her pronouns, hough I don't feel like they fit me. I haven't come out to people IRL so it bugs me to no end but I'm not in a position to come out yet so... yeah.

How do you feel about non-binary genders?
I don't know if it's appropriate to ask my opinions on them, they just are. I can't say something about binary genders in the same way, like "I don't think female people exist, it's all in their heads." If it's how you identify, I believe you and I respect your identity.

Do you think gender neutrality when not talking about specific individuals is important?
Yes, I do. I think it opens up the idea that you don't know what their gender is and that it's okay.

I classify myself as a female cat, but I could not give less of a heck if someone isn't female or male. Is Frisk gonna be brought into this conversation? 'Cause they're genderqueer.