MagiStream

Does human evolution exist?
Yes. And not just human evolution. Evolution exists, whether human or bacterial or plant or chemical.

Do you believe in Darwin's theory of human evolution?
Darwin's theory is a great start for evolution. It paved the way for a lot of scientists, biologists, mathematicians and the like to form more theories of evolution. It opened up minds in an era where special creation - possibly what is now called Young Earth Creationism but I am not very clear on YEC - was the prevailing idea.

For me, it's not so much a matter of 'believe'. Asking if I believe in evolution is like asking if I believe in a chair. Evolution exists, we can see it happening and we have evidence that it has happened over time.

Do you believe that humans were put here by God?
I do not believe in gods.

Do you think humans were genetically engineered by aliens and then put here on this planet?
No. I think if we were genetically engineered, they would have done a better job.

Did some higher being (not God) have a helping hand in creating humans as we know them today?
No. I don't think we needed a helping hand.

Did we, as a species, come from outer space by way of an asteroid (meaning we started out as microbial life)?
Maybe but this seems unlikely to me other than the fact that the chemicals that make us up and that started everything (chemical evolution) came from outer space. That is in the sense that everything was once 'outer space'.

What is your view on human evolution?
It exists. We have vestigial traits - traits that have no function for us but that we have because a common ancestor had them. We have developmental homologies - traits that are the same amongst many animals when we are in utero such as gill pouches. We have structural homologies - the bones in our hands are in a similar layout to the bones in the flipper of a turtle, the leg of a horse, the wing of a bat. We have genetic homologies - all life uses the same basic genetic code. We can move genes from a mouse into a fruit fly and have that gene expressed. We use the same nucleotide sequences to code for amino acids. Some of our protein products are so close to the products in an entirely different animal.

Fossil records show transitional creatures like the Tiktaalik - a creature which was most likely the first fish to have a neck.

We can see evolution happening. We see it all the time in bacteria. We can see it in herbicide resistant weeds. We can see it in the beak changes for finches on the Galapagos Islands. Of course, these are examples of natural selection and it must be said that there are more process working on evolution than just natural selection.

Evolution is a change in descent over time. It's a visible, phenotypical change that occurs because of a genotype change. Since genes are comprised of alleles, what it really means is that it is a change in allele frequencies over time. Natural selection increases the frequency of alleles that contribute to reproductive fitness. Genetic drift - when a chance event causes changes in a population like a flood killing out a bunch of lizards - causes change in the allele frequencies as well since now there might only be X of a certain genotype left. Gene flow also changes them; this is when individuals leave and join new populations and breed within that new population. And of course, there is mutation.

We see these happening in various populations and it just seems foolish and weird to me to assume that humans are some how different when we have so many similarities. We have traits that other animals do. We have evidence of our mitochondria having first been a bacteria. We have vestigal traits.

The thing is that evolution isn't fast. It takes generations and humans live a long time and grow slowly. So it is not going to be possible to see current human evolution in one person's lifetime.

We, like all other animals, evolved to fill a certain niche.

Oh and I'll add: I am an atheist. I believe aliens exist, I don't believe they ever fucked around with us while we were evolving but I'll admit there is a slim possibility. I grew up in a religious household - Hinduism - but both my parents 'believe' in evolution. When I was three, I asked my parents a question: I've seen my grandmother but I've never met my great-grandmother. Is she a monkey?

Also, fun and interesting thing! Whales, dolphins and porpoises used to live on hand and their closest living relative - based on DNA sequencing data and a parasitic DNA sequence called a SINE - are hippos.

Does human evolution exist?
most definitely.
Do you believe in Darwin's theory of human evolution?
it is not a matter of belief; it is scientific fact. we repeatedly have seen examples of evolution, and humans can trace our lineage to bipedal apes, to arboreal apes, to monkeys, to squirrel-like mammals, to mammal-like reptiles, to reptiles, to amphibians, to fish, to invertebrates, to single-celled organisms.
Do you believe that humans were put here by God?
God is nothing more than a human delusion to make ourselves feel more important.
Do you think humans were genetically engineered by aliens and then put here on this planet?
no. the fossil record shows the line that is human evolution from proto-bacteria to modern-day humans. yes, there are a couple gaps, but that simply shows there is more to learn about and discover. in any case, none are large enough to have separate entities come and rewrite our genes.
Did some higher being (not God) have a helping hand in creating humans as we know them today?
that is an interesting question. no, they did not interfere with our genes, but they (aliens, boogie men, whatever) may have influenced our culture. in fact, they did: today, there are many people who claim to have seen UFOs and aliens and the like.
Did we, as a species, come from outer space by way of an asteroid (meaning we started out as microbial life)?
well, technically, you could say everything came from space. however, everything evolved from single-celled organisms, such as bacteria.
What is your view on human evolution?
"It exists. We have vestigial traits - traits that have no function for us but that we have because a common ancestor had them. We have developmental homologies - traits that are the same amongst many animals when we are in utero such as gill pouches. We have structural homologies - the bones in our hands are in a similar layout to the bones in the flipper of a turtle, the leg of a horse, the wing of a bat. We have genetic homologies - all life uses the same basic genetic code. We can move genes from a mouse into a fruit fly and have that gene expressed. We use the same nucleotide sequences to code for amino acids. Some of our protein products are so close to the products in an entirely different animal."
-GrowlingCupcake

I couldn't have put it better myself.

SilverWolf wrote:Ah, this seems interesting.

I myself am a Christian, and before you jump to conclusions on what I believe in, I believe in both evolution and that we were created. To me, both evolution and creationism by themselves don't make much sense. Evolution states everything was made by mutating bacteria, or something ridiculous like that. I'm not an expert in the whole idea of evolution and where it started, so please excuse me if I'm wrong on something. Creationism, on the other hand, states we were made like how we are today.

So, this is what I believe. I believe that ancient man was created, that they did not evolve from primates. It seems strange to me that we would evolve into insanely complex beings in such a short amount of time, yet our simple primate 'cousins' did not and are still the same as they were when we first started evolving. It is possible that both us and primates were given somewhat similar bone and body structure, but that we were distinctly different from them. However, after we were created, I believe that God allowed us the ability to evolve and adapt to our surroundings, just like the other creatures are able to do.

Huh, that was more simple to explain than I thought it would be..

I'm curious: have you ever considered that evolution is god's way of creating humans? That he started life and then let evolution run its course to create a life form that would be able to understand the concept of god? It allows for both ideas to exist in harmony with each other.

However, I have to refute some of your points. Humans are not much more complex than the "simple" primate cousins you dismiss so easily. We share about 98% of the DNA, and if a god put us on the world completely independently from them, the question is why we would share so much. Neither are these primates the same as the common ancestor we share with them. In those several million years since our two branches split, they have continued evolving just as much as we did, but in a different direction.
The "short amount of time" you mentioned amounts to several billion years, starting with the first bacterial life. They didn't make things; other life forms are descendant from them, that is a difference.

By the way, the human body itself refutes Creationism, or at least the notion of intelligent design which Creationism is partly based on. There are several serious design flaws in humans that any human designer or engineer worth his salt would recognize and try to avoid. Just one example: ever choked on a piece of food? That's because our air tube is connected to the gullet and therefore allows for food to go the wrong way. Even if it was necessary for the air tube to open into there (it isn't, they'd be perfectly fine as two separate tubes with no connection), it could open into a spot where food would be less likely to slide into it. Evolution, however, explains why it is where it is; roughly speaking, the lung has evolved from the air bladder of prehistoric fishes, which in turn started as an outpocketing of the esophagus. Indeed, the same happens during fetal development of mammals (as well as other lung-breathing vertebrates), including humans. The body can't just switch position of an organ, it's quite set in how things work as most changes (i.e. mutations) are harmful. Therefore, we're stuck with the air tube right where it is.

Does human evolution exist?
Well in my opinion, they did. Fossil records showed that humans did evolve, but not from apes. They share a common ancestor. All of the living things in the world are somehow connected, whether it be closely or distant. We all evolved from the small fish 100,000,000,000 or so years ago, so these fish are our ancestors.
Do you believe in Darwin's theory of human evolution?
Yes. Life is the survival of the fittest, and therefore creatures fit for the environment survive, and likewise creatures UNfit for the environment eventually die out.
Do you believe that humans were put here by God?
It's actually your opinion. This is a free country. But for me, I'll say No because
1. I'm not religious.
2. If god really did make humans from clay, then where did all the organs come from?
3. Animals need to come from somewhere.
Do you think humans were genetically engineered by aliens and then put here on this planet?
It's possible. I've heard aliens got technology far more advanced than ours. Also, we could have been a failed superweapon to take over some other world, so aliens could have dumped us here.
Did some higher being (not God) have a helping hand in creating humans as we know them today?
Again, it's possible,but extremely unlikely.
Did we, as a species, come from outer space by way of an asteroid (meaning we started out as microbial life)?
As I said, it could have happened. The asteroid could have landed in the ocean. Look at my chart:

Asteroid/microbial life -> ocean. Microbial life -> Fish. Fish-> Humans.

Does human evolution exist?
Evolution exists, no matter what creature is being discussed. There is far too much evidence showing that it does happen for it not to be a reality.

Do you believe in Darwin's theory of human evolution?
I'm only familiar with the basics of Darwin's theory, but I think that yes, it does have some very true points, particularly regarding natural selection/survival of the fittest.

Do you believe that humans were put here by God?
I don't believe we were just randomly put here, no. The idea of straight creationism is something I cannot accept as fact, because it simply does not make sense to me.

My mom brought up an interesting point once pertaining to the Christian idea of creationism, though: God created the earth in six days, but no one said those days were as long as ours. For all we know this is still God's seventh day of rest. Idunno - it was kind of interesting, I'd never have seen it that way, although I still do not believe in creationism as it's told.

Do you think humans were genetically engineered by aliens and then put here on this planet?
No. While I believe that we are not the only intelligent life in the universe, I don't believe we were created and dropped here by it.

Did some higher being (not God) have a helping hand in creating humans as we know them today?

I'm curious: have you ever considered that evolution is god's way of creating humans? That he started life and then let evolution run its course to create a life form that would be able to understand the concept of god? It allows for both ideas to exist in harmony with each other.

This is actually more or less what I believe. I like to think that a creator just kinda created the basics and got stuff started, then just let us kinda hang out and do our thing...and here we are a really long time later.

Did we, as a species, come from outer space by way of an asteroid (meaning we started out as microbial life)?
I'm don't think I believe that, but I can't completely discredit it, either.

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@Radioactivewaffle

Um...can you link me to your sources that say we evolved from a small fish (or any fish for that matter)? The fossil record does show that we evolved from apes, and that record goes back at least 3.2 million years.

I'm really confused at how you arrived at the number 100 billion for the time of the last common ancestor, because the earth is only ~4.5 billion years old (byo) with the first simple life probably appearing around 4-3.8 billion years ago (bya). The universe itself is theorized to only be ~13.8-14byo. If you meant to type just one billion years, that's unfortunately not correct either, as the fossil record for life starts at more than 3bya.

If you are talking about the last universal ancestor, that was probably a microbe that lived sometime between 3.8 and 3.2 mya, not a fish. We do share some of our DNA with fish, just as we share DNA with other animals, we the majority of our DNA is shared with apes, especially the great apes, of which our closest living relative is the chimpanzee - and that is the animal with which we share at least 98% of our DNA.

2. If god really did make humans from clay, then where did all the organs come from?
3. Animals need to come from somewhere.

If we're discussing the Christian idea of creationism here, the animals were created before humans. When God created Adam, he gave him dominion over all the living creatures of the earth, which means that the animals must have existed before the first human. Also, if the basic shape of man can be created from clay, and assuming God also created all other creatures in all their complexity, then it stands to reason that God could easily have crafted complex organs and organ systems.

Tekla wrote:My mom brought up an interesting point once pertaining to the Christian idea of creationism, though: God created the earth in six days, but no one said those days were as long as ours. For all we know this is still God's seventh day of rest. Idunno - it was kind of interesting, I'd never have seen it that way, although I still do not believe in creationism as it's told.

That is interesting. It's not something I believe in, since I am an atheist, but there's no reason to assume a deity's day is the same as ours.

Tekla wrote:@Radioactivewaffle

Um...can you link me to your sources that say we evolved from a small fish (or any fish for that matter)? The fossil record does show that we evolved from apes, and that record goes back at least 3.2 million years.

I think what they mean is that we all evolved from some sort of oceanic life. That's what I assumed it to mean, anyway.

Edit: They may also be referring to oceanic life as the last common ancestor of animalia. Since the oldest animal fossils are sponges, it was oceanic life. Not fish, though.

It's a bit strange for me. I don't fully believe humans have evolved from anything but I don't dismiss it as lies. Let's just say that it'spossible that a God or something made the first human beings by having a few primitive primates evolve. I'm a Christian so of course I believe in God doing something like this but I can't go any further than that because the rules have stated this is not a religious discussion.

HoarderofMistwalkers wrote:It's a bit strange for me. I don't fully believe humans have evolved from anything but I don't dismiss it as lies. Let's just say that it'spossible that a God or something made the first human beings by having a few primitive primates evolve. I'm a Christian so of course I believe in God doing something like this but I can't go any further than that because the rules have stated this is not a religious discussion.

So is it sort of a "God made life and then let it evolve" thing?

How far back do you feel it is? You say humans evolved from primates but would you say we are related to a whale? Or a chicken? Or going further back, would you say we're related to insects or sponges, etc.?

I think humans are unique beings. They are only slightly related to other primates because perhaps a higher being or God of some sort pulled a few of them out and created mankind. This is how I believe God could have created man. So, ya I guess you could say God created life and had it evolve.

I do think that human evolution is very real, but what a high being or an advance race (DAMN ALIENS LOL) "help" speed up our evolution...... also as hoarderofmistwalkers said, I do think that god probably did create earth and watched it tumble like a toddler, plus I have many more theories that would take literally a few dozen to thousands of pages to fill........ my brain hurts .

also I think this was a bump or necro, idk, I just thought id "reopen" this convo for another round of debate. (I might also "bump" a few more topics idk)