MagiStream

Whenever there is a highly emotive subject, filled with people who mean well but tend to be fuelled by a feel good mentality and blind belief in certain interpretations of data, that it's very, very hard to express an opinion. I cannot state that I do not believe in keeping cetaceans in captivity entirely, but I can state that I question the conditions many are kept in and the complacency of certain aquariums/marine parks when it comes to ensuring cetacean/staff safety. I can also question the motivation of certain marine parks/aquariums who seem to drive the majority of their funds into anything but genuine conservation of the species they're so proud to exhibit to the public.

Blackfish was not, to my mind, a well balanced documentary. It catered for a specific market, but failed to do an adequate job of showing that sometimes you have to weigh up the evils you're presented with and go with the lesser one. Many conservation projects require work both in and ex-situ, it needs to be a well meshed plan where one supports the other and is not just carried out because it's actually quite profitable. With cetaceans whatever you do you're going to impact upon their life, while a lot of marine parks and the like require vast improvements to meet the animals basic needs there are a lot of well meaning conservation groups who do more harm than good through their at sea observations. Even a seapen is, technically, inadequate, and not really much of an improvement for many captive animals.

As much as certain groups promote it as being an issue with a simple answer, it isn't. There is no simple answer for conservationists, particular those involved with large sea mammals who can never technically be catered for appropriately in any man made environment. Not if you're looking at their movement ecology, social interactions, and the like anyhoot. There are a lot of well meaning, passionate people, who are very quick to produce charismatic articles painting a dire picture when their actual access to the facts is incredibly limited, and that clouds the water quite a bit. There is lots of shouting, lots of hissing, and far too many people who automatically believe the view they hold is the one everyone should hold, with no deviation or acceptance of the need for alternative ones, for me to be entirely comfortable with the majority of information swimming around out there.

When all my rambling is said and done, I agree that there are a whole load of places in this world where the knowledge of captive cetacean care held by members of staff is woeful, and I agree that there are a whole load of places which do not consider the welfare of their cetaceans adequately enough to compensate for the negative impacts of captivity on their wards. But then I also agree that a lot of activists/advocates for cetaceans do not know as much as they think they do about the impacts of captivity and their views are clouded with prejudice against something they have no desire to see in a balanced light and so can only ever see as a negative.

At least that's if we're talking about captive cetaceans as a whole, rather than the standard of care delivered by Seaworld and parks of that particular ilk. That's a whole new kettle of fish.

One thing I would like to say first without going into too deep a debate, is that though everyone is entitle to their own opinion, and I know everyone(hopefully) is very polite on these debates on Magistream, off this site I have seen ugly, and brutal debates about this. I appreciate Magistream giving us a place to debate and share our opinions without the brutal, ignorant meanness I have seen elsewhere. Here it is easy to share sites, sources, and facts so we all can learn and be more informed about the current situations. Thank you moderators, and other users for keeping it this way.

Now this subject on captive cetaceans hits close to home for me. I don't want to reveal a lot about me but I will tell you I volunteer occasionally at Mystic Aquarium located in Mystic, CT, USA. In the past few months I have had to deal with many things concerning captive cetaceans. Now I'll add a link to the website at the bottom, but just to inform you Mystic Aquarium has am Arctic Coast exhibit where they house beluga whales (a ceratacean). When Blackfish came it everyone at the Aq. had to deal with people not only asking us on our opinion of it, but people who tried comparing SeaWorld and Mystic Aquarium together. Now that was actually not too hard to deal with. Being able to have a professional, calm conversation face-to-face with someone, and tell them Mystic's story on their cetaceans(give them Mystic Aq's side), and letting them form their own opinion is very easy to handle. What hurt me the most was when one of the older whales, Naku, passed away from a respiratory illness she had been battling for several months. I was not too surprised at her passing, and was very proud at how long she had lived fighting an illness for so long, so that did not hurt me. What hurt me were the comments made. I knew there are those who disapprove of keeping captive cetaceans, and they are entitled to their own opinion, and it hurt to see how many disowned Mystic. What hurt most of all was when people said that we(trainers, volunteers,staff members, etc.) didn't deserve to mourn her passing because of how much we neglected her. Most of these people did not seem to have the full story on Mystic, and didn't give a lot of proof saying how we neglected her. Most basically sent a message across of "SeaWorld is an aquariums that holds cetaceans and many bad things are associated with them, and Mystic is an aquarium with cetaceans, so it must be as bad as SeaWorld too." I don't even want to mention it, nor seem rude or mean, but some people seemed extremely ignorant of both sides, and wrote some really ridiculous comments.

My main point here is this: I love cetaceans, and hate to see them mistreated and abused, and believe many places (including SeaWorld) have wronged these creatures. I realize Mystic made a mistake in the first place of taking these creatures from their native habitat (as they did before I believe the Marine Mammal Protection Act of 1970 banned it), but I hold faith in them, and believe that they have done their absolute best (especially in recent years) to try to improve the quality of life their whales live. I wish when people accuse Mystic of being the same of SeaWorld, that they did a little research and make sure to be well-informed on all sides off the story. Also that Mystic Aq. is also does a TON of research, many about belugas. Lastly that I once again thank everyone here for handling all of this in such a nice way. Even though we have so so many differences, we can discuss such topics nicely.

Links: Please note that Naku's death is not mentioned on Mystic's Website

Mystic Aq. Homepage: http://www.mysticaquarium.org/

Mystic Aq. About Page: http://www.mysticaquarium.org/about

Mystic Aq. Page on Beluga Exhibit: http://www.mysticaquarium.org/animals-a ... uga-whales

Mystic Aq. Page on Arctic Watch Beluga Population Study: http://www.mysticaquarium.org/research/ ... tion-study

Mystic Aq. Page on Research: Look how many are about Belugas!! http://www.mysticaquarium.org/research


Local News Story(with the comments): http://wtnh.com/2014/03/10/33-year-old- ... hale-dies/

Please feel free to ask me if I wrote something a bit too confusing. Sometimes even if I re-read something I don't notice that it makes absolutely no sense at all. Thanks once more everyone!

I have heard of the Blackfish documentary, but I have not watched it before.
They shouldn't be held in captivity for our amusement, and especially to have to suffer for it. That's just not right. I agree with what's been mentioned already: the best way to hold these cetaceans is in giant seawater pens without anything they can hurt themselves with.

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Giant seawater pens without anything (like rocks and stuff) are almost the same as tanks, for me. A seapen is supposed to offer everything of a normal ocean/sea where they'd normally live in, including rocks and stuff.

Anyways, I did some research on that aquarium and even though it all looks pretty natural and all, I still don't agree with keeping cetaceans in captivity, one way or another. But I do like the fact that Mystic aq. at least does a lot of research for and in favour belugas, which is a good thing.

tornadofan2 wrote:Giant seawater pens without anything (like rocks and stuff) are almost the same as tanks, for me. A seapen is supposed to offer everything of a normal ocean/sea where they'd normally live in, including rocks and stuff.

Anyways, I did some research on that aquarium and even though it all looks pretty natural and all, I still don't agree with keeping cetaceans in captivity, one way or another. But I do like the fact that Mystic aq. at least does a lot of research for and in favour belugas, which is a good thing.

I would rather have no cetaceans in captivity, but I do agree with how hard they work towards giving their belugas a home as akin to their native habitat as possible, and research for captive, and free belugas. The belugas' home at Mystic Aq. to me seems very nice for them. I'm not sure if there are any good pictures of what inside their exhibit looks like, but when in person you can see that the bottom of the tank has rocks, and the aquarium specially designed the walls of the exhibit to be rough so when the whales shed they can rub against all the rough surfaces like when in their natural habitat. They don't have any permanent plant-like structures, but I have had other docents tell me that sometimes fake kelp is put in the tank for the whales to play with. I have also heard, but not seen yet that ice is also put in their tank for them to play with, because they LOVE ice. I've seen Juno once lick the ice off the glass of the underwater viewing area, then play around with it. I do hope one day a program could be put in place so when cetaceans are born in captivity, they can be taught to live in their natural habitat. I've seen documentaries of these kinds of programs work with endangered bird species. I'm not sure if besides birds if those kinds of programs have worked yet, but I know there are people out there trying to do so with other species.

Putting this out into the open first and foremost: I have seen Blackfish and have read the discussion going on here as well as having watched/read the follow-up segments/articles involving the Sea World attention.

Personally, I'm really not sure a straight jump into a sea-pen would be a good idea for the cetaceans in captivity. There is honestly a giant process for preparing them for living in the wild and there is a large amount of cetaceans who had never even seen the ocean before. Simply transporting them from the captivity of an aquarium or a water park into the confines of a sea-pen will not help them adapt. In my own opinion, the process should be slow and deliberate. Giving them live fish to chase and eat would be a good start. Giving them an environment with simulated rock formations and coral reefs would also help. But a straight and abrupt change as that would possibly give them cause for alarm and stress.

Once they were in the seapens, though, that would be another story altogether. An adequate sized space for them should be enough to allow them to adjust to temperature changes much broader than a tank like at Sea World can offer. At the very least the area should be ten miles in any given direction with enough space for fish and creatures to swim into and out of the pen so the cetaceans would have the chance to be stimulated.

Again, this is all of my own opinions and ideas for what should be done to enable captive cetaceans the chance to live comfortably in the wild.

GingerFang wrote:

tornadofan2 wrote:Giant seawater pens without anything (like rocks and stuff) are almost the same as tanks, for me. A seapen is supposed to offer everything of a normal ocean/sea where they'd normally live in, including rocks and stuff.

Anyways, I did some research on that aquarium and even though it all looks pretty natural and all, I still don't agree with keeping cetaceans in captivity, one way or another. But I do like the fact that Mystic aq. at least does a lot of research for and in favour belugas, which is a good thing.

I would rather have no cetaceans in captivity, but I do agree with how hard they work towards giving their belugas a home as akin to their native habitat as possible, and research for captive, and free belugas. The belugas' home at Mystic Aq. to me seems very nice for them. I'm not sure if there are any good pictures of what inside their exhibit looks like, but when in person you can see that the bottom of the tank has rocks, and the aquarium specially designed the walls of the exhibit to be rough so when the whales shed they can rub against all the rough surfaces like when in their natural habitat. They don't have any permanent plant-like structures, but I have had other docents tell me that sometimes fake kelp is put in the tank for the whales to play with. I have also heard, but not seen yet that ice is also put in their tank for them to play with, because they LOVE ice. I've seen Juno once lick the ice off the glass of the underwater viewing area, then play around with it. I do hope one day a program could be put in place so when cetaceans are born in captivity, they can be taught to live in their natural habitat. I've seen documentaries of these kinds of programs work with endangered bird species. I'm not sure if besides birds if those kinds of programs have worked yet, but I know there are people out there trying to do so with other species.

Well, at least they're trying very hard to keep them from being bored and give them a fairly natural environment. I quite like that.

I saw this on netflix...OMG Sea World is not getting a dime of my money. It's so sad

So, SeaWorld is expending their killer whale tanks with a completely new, more natural killer whale habitat that will be, at deepest, 50 feet deep. I'm not sure what to think about this, to be honest. It's good that they're gonna build this but I wonder how it will affect their killer whales.

It still doesn't change my mind. Seeing how they caught the whales. Nope nope nope...not going EVER.