MagiStream

A personal fascination of mine, although I tend to view my own sexuality and gender from a fairly detached perspective.

We know that gender can't be simply divided into "male" and "female"--intersex, transgender, androgynous, bigender, asexual, agender, pansexual, gay, lesbian, any combination of the above; the lines just aren't there anymore. Gender, sex, personal identification, aren't clear-cut anymore, not even a spectrum--a full set of HSB sliders, if we must keep the color analogy; a three-dimensional set of factors, behaviors, and reactions.

And let's get started on why people are like this. Genetic? Social? A combination of genetic predilection and factors in the womb and shortly after birth? Alignment of the stars at the moment of conception? Will of bizarre Lovecraftian entities for reasons unknowable?

So--discuss. Personal experiences? Rambling, introspection, extrospection, anything. All are welcome

Just remember-- Judgement free. No matter how much we might dislike a certain group or factor, don't just condemn it. Golden Rule, Do Unto Others and all that.

I have friends of various sexualities and from different backgrounds, and I could not for the life of me pinpoint whether how or where someone grew up could effect them. Perhaps it's just from birth. I have my best friend, a guy, and anyone who meets him will swear blind he's gay. He wears girls clothing, just like the skinny jeans and such, spends absolutely hours getting ready, making sure he looks okay, and oh god his hair. He will boast about his qualifications in hairdressing though currently works with me in a video game/movie store. But he's straight, or at most, bisexual. He says he's always been like that, but I knew him when he was what we call a 'chav', he managed to change out of it, so I think that with him it is nurture.
But on the flip side, I have a girl who's almost the reverse, but has always been from birth.

I think it's a combination of factors; genetic, nurture in the sense of hormones-in-the-womb, nurture in the sense of environment growing up, and at least in come cases there's at least a bit of just outright choice. Probably not very much, but people who end up right on the edge after genetics and different forms of nurture are done being factored in could have some say in which side they end up on. (This by the way is coming from my own as well as friends' experiences; if anyone's curious I can explain.)

I'm not sure you can argue hormones-in-the-womb as a reason for differing sexual orientations. I have a friend at work who is one half of a set of twins. She is gay, and very happily married to her female partner. Her twin brother is straight and also very happily married with several children. Granted they are not identical twins, but would the hormones available to both babies have been different?

Brynmala wrote:I'm not sure you can argue hormones-in-the-womb as a reason for differing sexual orientations. I have a friend at work who is one half of a set of twins. She is gay, and very happily married to her female partner. Her twin brother is straight and also very happily married with several children. Granted they are not identical twins, but would the hormones available to both babies have been different?

yes they can be.

There are people out there who are hormonally female - but have the body and bits of a male - the brain says female though..and vice versa.. the John Joan story i think it is.. have to look it back up...

Im not really convinced of the "I was born gay" theory though - isn't it a choice of what YOU personally see as attractive? I mean I can admire the female form - and do, but I dont want to sleep with them, its more of a "OMG isn't she hot?" thing to my other half...who would love it if I was interested that way in women... I just dont know.. it kinda is.. but not.. IDK... Im a fence sitter lol

so yeah hormones do have something to do with it, but so does upbringing and personally how you are attracted to others either of the same or opposite sex...

anyway.. interested to see what others say

Mordeth wrote:Im not really convinced of the "I was born gay" theory though - isn't it a choice of what YOU personally see as attractive? I mean I can admire the female form - and do, but I dont want to sleep with them, its more of a "OMG isn't she hot?" thing to my other half...who would love it if I was interested that way in women... I just dont know.. it kinda is.. but not.. IDK... Im a fence sitter lol

so yeah hormones do have something to do with it, but so does upbringing and personally how you are attracted to others either of the same or opposite sex...

anyway.. interested to see what others say

Being gay or whatever doesn't revolve on having sex. It is about whom you're physically and emotionally attracted to, whether for sex, a relationship, or what. When I first knew I was non-hetero, I hadn't had sex with a female. So really... just want to point out that it's not a matter of whom you sleep with.

I'm curious. Do you say that heterosexuals choose to be attracted to people of the opposite gender? If you're attracted to someone of the opposite sex and you don't want to sleep with them, would that make you non-hetero?

I say I am pansexual by birth. Why? Because I had crushes on females since I was five. I only realised it was my orientation when I was about sixteen (I called myself bi, though, as I had never head of pansexual). I see plenty of people I think are hot but wouldn't sleep with but that doesn't change my sexual orientation.

An ex of mine was very much a lesbian. Sometime ago, part of her brain died due to extreme illness and seizures. Now? She's pansexual.

^Actually, yes you are born gay. There have been several studies on this and it's also been discovered that if one twin is gay, there's a higher probability that the other one is gay, too (note: higher probability isn't the same as 100% if I remember correctly it was 60% chance that the other twin is gay, too). It's not a choice of who you are attracted to, whether it's only males, only females, both or everything.

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@GC, yeah sorry shouldnt of put that slant on it.

Do you say that heterosexuals choose to be attracted to people of the opposite gender?

I guess not no.. so why would you go from one to the other?

If you're attracted to someone of the opposite sex and you don't want to sleep with them, would that make you non-hetero?

I dont think so.. but I guess it could..

TBH - never heard of a Pansexual -- had to look it up. and in doing so brought up a question...does it mean that if you are really good friends with someone - they are your best friend for ages, you do almsot everything together and can't imagine your life without them - is that pansexuality? or just a really really awesome good buddy?

I will admit I am pretty clueless on most of this subject, and hope to learn more form some of you. its interesting...

Mordeth wrote:@GC, yeah sorry shouldnt of put that slant on it.

Do you say that heterosexuals choose to be attracted to people of the opposite gender?

I guess not no.. so why would you go from one to the other?

If you're attracted to someone of the opposite sex and you don't want to sleep with them, would that make you non-hetero?

I dont think so.. but I guess it could..

TBH - never heard of a Pansexual -- had to look it up. and in doing so brought up a question...does it mean that if you are really good friends with someone - they are your best friend for ages, you do almsot everything together and can't imagine your life without them - is that pansexuality? or just a really really awesome good buddy?

I will admit I am pretty clueless on most of this subject, and hope to learn more form some of you. its interesting...

No worries. xD Just wanted to point out because I know a lot of people who think that it's all about sex. Like if a bisexual girl has sex with another girl, she ends up lesbian, not bi, kind of thing.

Pansexual is when you've the potential to be attracted to anyone. It's just like being heterosexual or homosexual or whatever but there's no discrimination about gender or sex. So, I have the potential to be attracted to males, females, transgendered, etc. Anything. But again, it's about the potential. A hetero female wouldn't be attracted to all males, only ones she finds attractive. Same way, I only find some people attractive. I've only had two partners thus far because those are the only people I was truly attracted to, emotionally and physically and the like.

Like with bisexuality, there can be a strong slant towards one particular gender/sex. For me, it's towards females, that is I am more attracted to females than any other gender/sex.

Gender is another one of those aspects we decide to differentiate ourselves from those around us. Being human, we see our 'selves' and so therefore have to identify ourselves as what or who we are.

Being female does not necessarily mean 'princesses and unicorns, rainbows and sunshine'. Each person is different in their viewpoint of what they believe is their liking- and this of course changes with life experiences.

I myself love unicorns and yes, I sometimes dress in the color pink. I act girlish, but does this mean I'm completely viewed as 'female' in this case? No, not at all. Being raised by a family of all men besides my mother, I'm quite the tomboy- I enjoy superhero comic books and love nothing better than a good destruction and mayhem movie.

Gender and sexuality is a personal decision- you may be raised by parents who steer you in one direction during your childhood, but decide on a completely different decision as an adult.

I believe that there are different aspects that make us 'us'. Hormones are part, yes, but also the cultures we grow up in, as well as our family life. I was the first girl born to my name in 50 years- so being a girl was important to my family. On the other hand, some families may be ALL girls, and so this aspect is different with them.

Nature only has so much to do with anything- most of the decisions we make come from our own mind, and what our experiences are in our life.


As for the sexuality side of this, I believe this is another decision we must make to identify ourselves- and while this decision comes with a myriad of cultural problems nowadays, it still must be made.

I myself, am straight.

My best friend is bi

I dated a gay man. Even though he came out after we broke up, I still love him as a friend.

Do I see them as wrong? No, not at all. People make their own decisions, and whatever they want to believe in, they should. No one should tell them otherwise. Do I want them to try to press their beliefs on me? No- I disagree with that viewpoint in comparison with my 'self'. I respect them for their decision and even revel in them 'coming out' so to say, and telling their decision to the world. People should not be afraid of their selves, no matter how many people disagree with them.

You are you.

You should love yourself.