How old is the age when a child can make decisions for thems

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Re: How old is the age when a child can make decisions for t

Post by CasinWolfe »

DreamingOfIslands wrote:
CasinWolfe wrote:I knew in sixth grade what major I wanted, but my school didn't offer anything business related at all, so it didn't much matter. I think it depends on the student, but I also think that students should be sorted based on their intellect, not their age, seeing as I could've finished many of my classes in a third of the time. (and did in geometry, ended up fixing the mistakes in the textbook and the test keys the rest of the time) I don't know if this is a good example for the major population, but I think starting in middle school a kid should be able to take whatever classes they are capable of passing and are relevant to what they plan to do, with the default academics we have now for those who haven't decided yet.

p.s. they made me take agriculture through eighth grade, I am not a farmer, what I will ever do with the knowledge of how to ride a tractor and castrate a cow I will never know. so yes, I do think schools are much too inflexible, they make special allowances for below average students, but know one else.
And you're still only 15. That puts you.... Still in high school, am I right? As demonstrated by my personal story, your mind can still change. Students are, to an extent, sorted based on ability. Many schools have "gifted", "honors", or AP and DC classes that are harder and require more work. I peronally was honors and AP track through all of high school and part of middle school (I was initally placed below where I should be, due to some ignorance about "learning disabilities" and the nature of my Aspergers). It is possible to skip grades- However, I think you're overlooking the value of social skills learned interacting with your peers. I think middle school is much, much too young- With people living longer and longer, and more schooling changing the way minds work and develop, things are right about where they are. (Though, I would like to say, I mean this for decent high schools with a decent choice of electives and classes. Unfortunately, some schools are too underfunded or just too small to be able to offer students the kinds of class choices that benefit them).

About your agriculture class- Do you live in a rural area where many students /are/ farmers, are in farming families, or can easily find work as farmers? If so, this gen ed makes perfect sense. If it's likely that you'll grow up to be a farmer and can be successful doing it, it's perfectly logical to make students take a general agriculture class. I have seen about equal exceptions for below average students as above average students. As one who could be considered above average, I was allowed to take geometry before algebra I (The norm in my high school being the opposite) due to a scheduling conflict, allowed to take an extra "early bird" class, and allowed to have a study hall should I choose it (with some restrictions). My high school had a night school program that could be considered for below average students or underachievers, and some pregnant students got special perks (Which could be a huge rant from me on its own).

We've already discussed why general education classes are important, especially in this economy. The main points were that it was important for a well rounded education (To make YOU a well-rounded person) and allowed one more flexibility in future career paths (Because even if you think you know what you want to do now, you may change your mind or need to take a job in a different field due to necessity).
yes, I do live in a rural area, I just question whether an agriculture class should be required. I know kids who major in agriculture, and that's great, they're getting a head start, but for us city-slickers it seems like a waste of time, it's a little like trying to make a nerd play sports. (yes, that was stereotypical, I couldn't think of a better way to put it though, sorry) and yes we have something like honors classes, dual enrollment, they're still too easy, and you can't skip grades in my school. as for social skills, I have none, as I'm too blunt, very tactless, and will not interact with people I don't like more than necessary, but putting me in normal classes does not appear to be helping and I have no intention of fixing them, I honestly see no reason to pretend to get along with someone when you don't, you don't have to like someone to work with them. (because of my lack of tact, I apologize if at any time I insult someone, chances are it was an accident) I did mention I was probably not a good example, most teachers don't know what to do with me, they just sort of end up sticking me in a corner and ignoring me if I'm not paying attention. I guess middle school could be to young for a lot of kids to know what they want to do, again I was not stating a general example, and I already do work in the business field, I am a publisher for a single book, and an editor for several that are not finished, so I wish it were possible for me to take classes that would help me learn business tactics so I knew more about what the heck I was doing.

I know general education is important, I didn't mean make it possible to not take them, my bad. I meant if we could manage both general classes and higher level specialized classes, we should have to opportunity to do both. throw me a textbook and give me a list of assignments, I'll get the class done in under a semester. the pace the classes go at is what bothers me, not the actual content.

also, my school has almost no variety at all, which is what makes me so prickly on the subject.
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Re: How old is the age when a child can make decisions for t

Post by DreamingOfIslands »

CasinWolfe wrote: yes, I do live in a rural area, I just question whether an agriculture class should be required. I know kids who major in agriculture, and that's great, they're getting a head start, but for us city-slickers it seems like a waste of time, it's a little like trying to make a nerd play sports. (yes, that was stereotypical, I couldn't think of a better way to put it though, sorry) and yes we have something like honors classes, dual enrollment, they're still too easy, and you can't skip grades in my school. as for social skills, I have none, as I'm too blunt, very tactless, and will not interact with people I don't like more than necessary, but putting me in normal classes does not appear to be helping and I have no intention of fixing them, I honestly see no reason to pretend to get along with someone when you don't, you don't have to like someone to work with them. (because of my lack of tact, I apologize if at any time I insult someone, chances are it was an accident) I did mention I was probably not a good example, most teachers don't know what to do with me, they just sort of end up sticking me in a corner and ignoring me if I'm not paying attention. I guess middle school could be to young for a lot of kids to know what they want to do, again I was not stating a general example, and I already do work in the business field, I am a publisher for a single book, and an editor for several that are not finished, so I wish it were possible for me to take classes that would help me learn business tactics so I knew more about what the heck I was doing.

I know general education is important, I didn't mean make it possible to not take them, my bad. I meant if we could manage both general classes and higher level specialized classes, we should have to opportunity to do both. throw me a textbook and give me a list of assignments, I'll get the class done in under a semester. the pace the classes go at is what bothers me, not the actual content.

also, my school has almost no variety at all, which is what makes me so prickly on the subject.
Firstly, you're not a city-slicker unless you're born and raised there ;) Did you move to your current area? Besides, even if you were born in a city, you can still be interested in, enjoy, or have an aptitude for typical "country" activities. My family is originally from Long Island, New York, and we now live in southwest Virginia. My Mom enjoys quilting, and we both enjoy gardening. I took horticulture in high school and thoroughly enjoyed it. A nerd /could/ play sports, if a nerd really wanted to. Several of the top-ranking students in my graduating class played a sport. Heck, I think I was one of the /few/ who /didn't/.

Your lack of tact and social skills are only a reason to work harder to remedy them. Believe it or not, they /are/ important in today's society. You don't need to like people, but you do need to be able to get along with them and work with them. Being book smart and crappy at everything else (what you seem to be aiming at) will not get you anywhere. Colleges are looking more and more at your extra curricular activities in addition to your grades- I was actually worried about being accepted to college because I didn't do as many sports or extra curricular activities as my peers. I was like you for quite some time. I'd had a lot of bad experiences with "friends" in high school, and chose to trust and keep company with very few people. In my mind, I was biding my time until college (I'd always held college in front of myself as sort of a golden apple, or carrot, or whatever. I hated high school with a passion- I didn't mesh with my peers, and there were relatively few of them. In my mind, college would be all the things I loved about school, like learning new things and more specialized classes, with new social challenges and new people to meet. I'm pleased to say that it was everything I expected, and I quickly joined an incredible circle of friends) to make friends. My school was small (roughly 800 students) in a small town. My college is substantially larger- More people is more chances to make the friends you really need. And I don't know if it's bothering you, but it always, always bothered me that I didn't have as many friends and boyfriends as I wanted. I'm still struggling with the fact that I'm 19 and haven't had a proper boyfriend. It's killing me emotionally, and even if you're not thinking about people to share your life with /now/, I can imagine that you will soon.

Maybe you should try finding variety and challenges where you can. Look into online classes, pick up a hobby, try out for a sport, teach yourself something. Buy your own textbooks and learn. For quite a long time, I almost exclusively read nonfiction books on topics that interested me. I still have hefty books from my childhood on dinosaurs and ancient Egypt. I've never been athletically inclined, but I enjoy long walks (with friends, or dogs when no friends are available). I'm an art student, so I like doing little projects on my own time (sculpey is a favorite, and so is collecting collage materials). Instead of wishing the situation would conform to your wants and needs, try to spin it so it does.

I can only assume that you are self-publishing, or that you have editing skills that you do not apply to your posts on this forum. That English class might be more important than you think.
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Re: How old is the age when a child can make decisions for t

Post by CasinWolfe »

DreamingOfIslands wrote: Firstly, you're not a city-slicker unless you're born and raised there ;) Did you move to your current area? Besides, even if you were born in a city, you can still be interested in, enjoy, or have an aptitude for typical "country" activities. My family is originally from Long Island, New York, and we now live in southwest Virginia. My Mom enjoys quilting, and we both enjoy gardening. I took horticulture in high school and thoroughly enjoyed it. A nerd /could/ play sports, if a nerd really wanted to. Several of the top-ranking students in my graduating class played a sport. Heck, I think I was one of the /few/ who /didn't/.

Your lack of tact and social skills are only a reason to work harder to remedy them. Believe it or not, they /are/ important in today's society. You don't need to like people, but you do need to be able to get along with them and work with them. Being book smart and crappy at everything else (what you seem to be aiming at) will not get you anywhere. Colleges are looking more and more at your extra curricular activities in addition to your grades- I was actually worried about being accepted to college because I didn't do as many sports or extra curricular activities as my peers. I was like you for quite some time. I'd had a lot of bad experiences with "friends" in high school, and chose to trust and keep company with very few people. In my mind, I was biding my time until college (I'd always held college in front of myself as sort of a golden apple, or carrot, or whatever. I hated high school with a passion- I didn't mesh with my peers, and there were relatively few of them. In my mind, college would be all the things I loved about school, like learning new things and more specialized classes, with new social challenges and new people to meet. I'm pleased to say that it was everything I expected, and I quickly joined an incredible circle of friends) to make friends. My school was small (roughly 800 students) in a small town. My college is substantially larger- More people is more chances to make the friends you really need. And I don't know if it's bothering you, but it always, always bothered me that I didn't have as many friends and boyfriends as I wanted. I'm still struggling with the fact that I'm 19 and haven't had a proper boyfriend. It's killing me emotionally, and even if you're not thinking about people to share your life with /now/, I can imagine that you will soon.

Maybe you should try finding variety and challenges where you can. Look into online classes, pick up a hobby, try out for a sport, teach yourself something. Buy your own textbooks and learn. For quite a long time, I almost exclusively read nonfiction books on topics that interested me. I still have hefty books from my childhood on dinosaurs and ancient Egypt. I've never been athletically inclined, but I enjoy long walks (with friends, or dogs when no friends are available). I'm an art student, so I like doing little projects on my own time (sculpey is a favorite, and so is collecting collage materials). Instead of wishing the situation would conform to your wants and needs, try to spin it so it does.

I can only assume that you are self-publishing, or that you have editing skills that you do not apply to your posts on this forum. That English class might be more important than you think.
I know nerds can play sports, that's why I apologized for the stereotype. yes I am from the city, I have no interest in agriculture, I know you can be good at something outside a stereotype, I just meant in this case it is not the case. dual enrollment means I'm already enrolled in and taking college classes while being in high-school, and honestly it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I don't have a problem with the number of friends I have, I'm not interested in quantity, I'm interested in quality. I know you need to be able to work with people, I can do that, all I said was I wasn't gonna pretend to like them. also, I'm not allowed to do sports, or any after school activity, unless I plan on sleeping at the school, since there's no way for me to get home. we don't seem to be that much alike, seeing as I haven't had bad experiences with friends, and I don't hate high school at all, it just bores me. I don't mesh with my peers out of choice, not because I'm incapable of doing so. I tried hanging out with a bigger majority of my school one time, that was probably the dullest week of my life. I hope you have better luck finding a boyfriend though. ^_^ I don't understand this problem either, really, I think I'm asexual, I don't have any interest in dating anyone, the idea doesn't make sense to me. maybe, like you suggest, it will some day. I have hobbies for researching things, (ok, it's more of an obsession) I'm trying to figure out how to use a bokken. (it's a wooden sword used for practice) And I know I need to find my own way to make things fit, I just felt like throwing my two cents in here. :t-shrug:

I never said english classes were not important. also, I make no effort to use proper english, grammar, or spelling in this forum, I am aware of all the mistakes in my posts, I simply don't feel like fixing them.
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Re: How old is the age when a child can make decisions for t

Post by TNHawke »

Rueflowers wrote:I find all of your points interesting but what do you think about having young adults who KNOW what they want to do with their lives being able to learn more specified information for their paths?
As someone else said, the problem is, you don't really KNOW. All through my childhood, I wanted to be a zookeeper or a veterinarian. If I'd had the opportunity to go through a medically geared charter school, like my area has now, I would have (and either loved it and be a vet now, or discovered I hated it much earlier in life and not wasted 4 years and thousands of dollars). I got into college, step 1 was to major in pre-vet med and get a bachelors, after that it was off to a different college for my masters to become a vet.
4 semesters in, I discovered that I really, REALLY don't care how cells work. I don't feel the need to memorize every bump and divot on every bone. While fascinating, I don't care to regurgitate the chemical processes of molecules that make the body work.
After 1 year of general ed (English, math and history core classes), I got 2 years into my college career before I found out that what I'd wanted to do with myself or my entire childhood was NOT what I wanted to do with my adult life.
Because I'd taken quite a few 'random' core classes, giving me that well rounded education, I had an idea of some other things I could fall back on.
I almost chose Economics or business (and having the life experiences I do now, I know that I probably should have), but I opted to go with psychology. I loved most of my psych classes, even the deep biology parts that I still had to take, and the math parts that I still had to do- which were applied maths for research, not random text book math problems math. Graduated with a bachelors of science.
Vocationally, it's done jack diddly for me since then.
DreamingOfIslands wrote:Colleges are looking more and more at your extra curricular activities in addition to your grades.
Not only do many colleges consider this, but employers do too. This is part of why my college degree has done nothing for me. I spent all my time in books, I didn't join clubs or get into any other extra curricular activities. Especially with the economy the way it is right now, companies can be extremely picky with who they hire because of all the applicants. If you don't have the EXACT right piece of paper stating that you supposedly know what you say you do, they're not even going to look at you. Once you have that right piece of paper- you and a bunch of other people do. So the employer is going to look at- not necessarily your grades- but what ELSE have you done? Did you just eek out a 2.8 gpa and not do anything but school because you were working and/ or raising a family? or did you keep that 3.8 gpa while also being president of one club, playing a sport, and being a member of two other clubs? Are you busy volunteering in your free time, or are you a homebody? Guess who they're going to choose?

If someone would have told me just a couple of things to help me get through college- I wish they would have told me "Get involved, join every club you're even remotely interested in" and "Save some core classes for the end, so you have a couple you can breeze through while slogging through Sr. level courses in your major".

As an adult, I could have made those choices, and I made the wrong ones.
CasinWolfe wrote:I know nerds can play sports, that's why I apologized for the stereotype. yes I am from the city, I have no interest in agriculture, I know you can be good at something outside a stereotype, I just meant in this case it is not the case. dual enrollment means I'm already enrolled in and taking college classes while being in high-school, and honestly it doesn't seem like a big deal to me. I don't have a problem with the number of friends I have, I'm not interested in quantity, I'm interested in quality. I know you need to be able to work with people, I can do that, all I said was I wasn't gonna pretend to like them. also, I'm not allowed to do sports, or any after school activity, unless I plan on sleeping at the school, since there's no way for me to get home. we don't seem to be that much alike, seeing as I haven't had bad experiences with friends, and I don't hate high school at all, it just bores me. I don't mesh with my peers out of choice, not because I'm incapable of doing so. I tried hanging out with a bigger majority of my school one time, that was probably the dullest week of my life. I hope you have better luck finding a boyfriend though. ^_^ I don't understand this problem either, really, I think I'm asexual, I don't have any interest in dating anyone, the idea doesn't make sense to me. maybe, like you suggest, it will some day. I have hobbies for researching things, (ok, it's more of an obsession) I'm trying to figure out how to use a bokken. (it's a wooden sword used for practice) And I know I need to find my own way to make things fit, I just felt like throwing my two cents in here. :t-shrug:

I never said english classes were not important. also, I make no effort to use proper english, grammar, or spelling in this forum, I am aware of all the mistakes in my posts, I simply don't feel like fixing them.
This would be one of those things where you are likely making the WRONG choice, thinking it's the right one. You're at that age where you think you know it and you've got it down, but those of us who have had some more experience know otherwise. This is the sort of thing this thread is discussing. You believe you're ready to make the best decisions, but those with the experience can see that you don't. Specifically, in line with this thread- those with more experience are the adults, the teachers, the people in charge of school curriculum. They know what needs to go into a good education, and that's what they offer to the best of their ability and for what funding allows for.
To you specifically, CasinWolfe...
No, you don't have to like everyone, but if you are going to survive in the world, you HAVE to make an effort to get along with people you don't like. Example- at my current job, we had a lady who had personal issues against another lady in the business place. They ended up being scheduled on the same team. The one who had the issues asked to be moved to a different team, because she didn't like the other, and although she didn't come right out and say it, her actions said she didn't want to put in the effort to get along regardless. She got moved all right- right out the door. They fired her because of the same kind of attitude you are portraying.
A lot of businesses, and I imagine some colleges may as well, are looking up people's information online. Sure you have a screen name, not your real name, but that can be easily enough found out. So they do a search for your screen name, and find posts like this. They see this candidate doesn't care to put in the effort to use correct grammar and spelling in simple, mundane things like a forum post. "How can we trust them to put in full effort for our company? We can't." And they set your otherwise stellar resume aside and hire someone else.
To a certain extent "I'm fine, accept me the way I am, I don't have to change" is an ok attitude, but when that attitude makes it difficult for others to get along with you, you should probably rethink it.
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Re: How old is the age when a child can make decisions for t

Post by umbreon241 »

I actually really do not appreciate the present ages. At all.
Speaking as a recently-turned 13-year-old, I had to quit some sites a while back because they wouldn't allow people under 13 because of the law I forget the name of that makes kids have to get parental consent forms or something of that nature in order to be on some websites.
I hated that law because every child is different. What about the kids who are mentally advanced compared to their peers and can understand adult topics far more than most of their classmates? It's a stereotype when you think like that.
However, the consent/drinking/smoking laws work well because although the internet is a good place to be when you're on certain sites, it is not a good idea to have a drunk nine year old running around. The ingredients in alcohol would severely damage their growing brain.
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Re: How old is the age when a child can make decisions for t

Post by HopeLions13 »

I want to say that everyone is right in a way. Everyone who said that a teenager really doesn't know what they want to do with their life is right. I thought for 5 years that I was going to be a Veterinarian. And now I have decided that I kinda don't want to be and that I want to be a writer. But also I think that more challenging classes should be offered because you really don't get any special classes until High school. In Middle school if you are smart you can't skip I grade (don't ask me why), You can't be put into any accelerated classes, and I don't know who said it but why should schools make exceptions for people with under average grades but not above average? I feel that maybe courses for what you want to be wouldn't work but that schools do NEED accelerated classes for smarter students.
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Re: How old is the age when a child can make decisions for t

Post by Wolfsister »

Since the focus here seems to be on schooling, I have one new thing that I would like to point out: you will never escape general education courses. If you plan to go to college, you will be required to take plenty of classes that do not necessarily relate to your plans, and some that you hate but that happen to be connected to part of your major subject. For example: if I had a choice, there is no way I would ever choose to take intro physics. It is a terrible class, and I really don't care for the material. But it is related to chemistry, and therefore I have no choice. If I had chosen not to take physics in high school (thankfully I did choose to since it was not required for me), I would be even worse off. I'm not even a fan of all the core courses for my major, but they are part of the subject and I have to take them. If you plan to get a degree, which is becoming more and more necessary for most people looking for careers, you really won't get too much choice in your gen ed or related area requirements.

While I agree that there should be more options before college for fulfilling gen ed requirements, it is more because I think kids should have the chance to explore everything than because I think they should choose a set path right away. I got lucky with my major: I chose it on a whim and it's working out for me. But if I hadn't always been so set on doing things fast, I might have found something I enjoyed even more. Oftentimes I sit in class with the other chemistry majors and listen to them talk, and wonder what's wrong with me for not being as interested in theory and concepts as they are. But I can't bring myself to consider anything else, because I am locked in with three years behind me, internships and research completed, and good enough at all of it that the entire department expects me to continue until I have a doctorate. I seem to be a bit of an anomaly because the only big interests I have are things that I would hate if they became a career, like fine arts. I am infinitely glad that I did not have the choice to take only fine arts in school, because chances are I would have. Then, once I realized that I only liked doing those things as hobbies, I would have had nothing to fall back on.

And with regards to skipping years because you are able, I am actually against it. If I had really wanted to, I probably could have gotten away with skipping a grade or two, but I do not believe it is in anyone's best interest to do so. I am also against purely online schools with no face-to-face gatherings for the same reason: whether you like it or not, you need to learn how to interact with people. I am in no way a people person, but I learned how to find people I liked and how to act properly with those I did not. Social skills are extremely important in the real world--as a kid it doesn't matter if people like you, but as an adult you have to make them like you to get what you need. If the feeling is not genuine, then you need practice to make it seem like it is. Trust me, as bad as that may sound, it is completely necessary unless you manage to be self employed with no clients to satisfy.
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