The Existence Of Mythical Creatures

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The Existence Of Mythical Creatures

Postby jllaw » May 15th, 2011, 3:46:34 pm

Please note: we are differentiating here mythological creatures --- for which no scientific evidence really exists (such as dragons, unicorns, etc.) and cryptids/cryptozoology for which there is a scientific process of study and for which some possibly solid scientific evidence exists (Bigfoot, Loch Ness monster, etc.). Keep this discussion to the mythological creatures so that it doesn't overlap. As with any discussion, you may also post your disagreement and reasons for it as well as agreement.

Okay this post is just so that everyone can talk seriously about wether or not mythical creatures can exist.

All rules apply here that everyone else has to follow so please use some common sence.

If you seriously believe in the existence of these creatures please tell on this post. Remember to say reasonable things to prove your beliefs.
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Re: The Existence Of Mythical Creatures

Postby jllaw » May 15th, 2011, 3:48:56 pm

In my opinion even the bible can prove the existence of these creatures now i wont say too much so u all can figure it on ur own.
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Re: The Existence Of Mythical Creatures

Postby Dawn » May 15th, 2011, 7:44:34 pm

Well, in my opinion, it's really real until proven unreal. So basically, there may be mythical creatures out there, but we might not have discovered them. I mean, we've only gotten sightings of creatures that may not be real (like Bigfoot, etc), but who's to say that they're not out there?
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Re: The Existence Of Mythical Creatures

Postby Ravenari » May 16th, 2011, 12:02:03 am

I'm not sure whether this topic will stay up, but I'll give a response a shot anyway. I do believe that mythical creatures - the kind that aren't just mythologised existing species (like, for example, the platypus, which was considered a hoax by many scientists for years and a hybridised taxidermied creature of someone's fancy) - do exist, just not in this world.

As a practicing shamanist, I believe in the existence of otherworlds, which some people might know as the faerie realm, or 'Over There' or basically realms that overlay this one but are composed of etheric or otherworldly energies. And 'Over There,' I believe mythological creatures (as well as gods, spirits, totems, and a great deal more) certainly do exist.

There are many Indigenous and Neo-spiritual communities that believe in the otherworlds, and believe that the 'mythological' creatures of the otherworlds can still impact us here. In Australia, the Indigenous Dreamtime is considered to be a realm or place that is both this world and the otherworlds, that is constantly happening around us. And through the right rituals / dances and songs, this otherworld can be accessed, and the creatures of 'fantasy' can be contacted and have profound impacts on spiritual and physical health and welfare.

It is thought, just within this example, that creatures like the Waugal (rainbow serpent) and Wandjina (creation spirits of the Kimberley, Western Australia) can come through and still touch our lives profoundly; whether we consciously have tried to bring that energy into our lives, or not. (Dreamtime Moon - Aboriginal Myths of the Moon by Charles Hulley has some excellent examples of both the concept of the Dreamtime, and how it's possible to contact this Dreamtime in the present).

That said, do I believe that scientists are likely to find fossils of Western dragons or Eastern dragons or manticores one day? Not really. I mean, I'm not saying it's completely outside the realm of possibility, but I do think it's not likely, based on the current fossil record, and also on the idea that many of these Indigenous stories that gave these mythological creatures genesis fully understood that these creatures existed, just not *here* in a tangible, touchable way. They could still impact us, but one wasn't likely to bring a felled Roc back to camp.

Many mythological creatures are also thought to be derived from pre-existing creatures. The unicorn horn of fame was often harvested or found narwhal horns (a long, spiralling white horn). Many of the middle-eastern mythological birds were thought to be derived from 'Terror Birds,' or giant, megafaunal eagles that are now extinct, but continued to be mentioned in lore and stories until they reached magical, epic proportions. The rainbow serpent of Australia, a creatrix of waterholes and waterways, is thought to be derived from an extinct, megafaunal python (Wonambi naracoortensis) which, like many other python species in Australia, was thought to have a rainbow like sheen and measure many, many metres long. The giant kraken of myth was eventually found and demonstrated to be species like the Colossus squid; truly gigantic, underwater behemoths that still exist today.

So, for me at least, I think it's more complex than a 'yes' or 'no' answer. Yes, I think mythological creatures exist, both as mis-understood or rare animals that actually live, or lived once in the fossil record; or in the otherworlds. But no, I don't think people are likely to run into a unicorn any time soon on this plane.
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Re: The Existence Of Mythical Creatures

Postby ryer » May 16th, 2011, 1:01:21 am

Of course it is more complex than a 'yes' or 'no', and pretty much everyone will have their own opinion on it. Me, I don't much care either way, because in the end we will most probably never find out. And especially not during my lifetime. So what's the point of wondering if they did / do exist or not? I personally like to believe that mythological creatures were indeed based on something that really did exist. Not because of any scientific evidence, but because life on Earth seems more interesting in that way. But in the end, I don't waste too much thought wondering if they were real or not. I prefer to take mythological creatures and reimagine it for my own.
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Re: The Existence Of Mythical Creatures

Postby jllaw » May 16th, 2011, 8:17:53 pm

okay since I am a christian i have found in the bible the book of Job that it speaks of a leviathan here is the passage: Mentions in the Book of Job

Book of Job 3:8 "May those who curse days curse that day, those who are ready to rouse Leviathan ";NIV
Book of Job 41:1-34: "Can you draw out a Leviathan with a hook or press down its tongue with a cord? Canst thou put a hook into his nose? or bore his jaw through with a bridle ring? Will he make many supplications to thee? Will he speak soft words to thee? Will he make a covenant with thee? To take him for thy servant forever? Will thou play with him as with a bird? Or wilt thou bind him for thy girls? Will the tradesmen heap up payment for him?... Lay thy hand upon him, thou will no more think of fighting. Behold the hope of him is in vain, shall not one be cast down even at the sight of him? None is so fierce that dare stir him up: who then is able to stand before me?...Who can open the doors of his face? His teeth are terrible round about. His scales are his pride, shut up together as with a close seal. One is near to the another, that no air can come between them. They are joined one to another, they stick together, that they cannot be sundered. By his a light doth shine, and his eyes are like the eyelids of morning. Out of his mouth go burning lamps, and sparks of fire leap out. Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron. His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth... His heart is as firm as a stone; yea, as hard as a piece of the nether millstone....He esteemeth iron as straw, and brass as rotten wood. The arrow cannot make him flee: slingstones are turned with him into stubble....He maketh the deep to boil like a pot....he is a king over all the children of pride."

The Christian interpretation of Leviathan is often considered as a demon or natural monster associated with Satan or the Devil, and held by some to be the same monster as Rahab (Isaiah 51:9). Some people see it as one and the same as the serpent in the garden Eden
Leviathan may also be interpreted as the sea, and not beast, with its counterparts behemoth being the land and ziz being the air and space. Some scholars have interpreted Leviathan, and other references to the sea in the Old Testament, as highly metaphorical references to seafaring marauders, such as pirates, who once terrorized the Kingdom of Israel. Others liken the mention to Tiamat and other similar monsters who represented the sea as a foe to the gods in myths of nearby cultures. It may just be a reference to sea snake.

Leviathan as an animal

Bother people who do not belive and who do belive in the bible have put forward creatures for what the creature may have been confused with or derived from. Some who see Job as fiction look for what the creature is derived from. While some who believe in the bible believe that the creature was not a one off animal in anicient era, but a species of animal. So that there would be fossilised versions of the creatures or animal that is around now .

In the book of Job, both Behemoth and Leviathan are listed alongside a number of other animals clearly mundane, such as goats, eagles, and hawks, leading many Christian scholars to surmise Behemoth and Leviathan may also be mundane creatures. The animal most often proposed for Leviathan is the Nile crocodile.

Like the Leviathan, the Nile crocodile is aquatic, scaly, and possesses fierce teeth. Job 41:18 states Leviathan's eyes "are like the eyelids of the morning". Some have compared this verse to a crocodile's eyes, which rise off the water before the rest of its head, invoking a image of the sun rising over the horizon. Major difficulties of this view are that in Job chapter 41 Leviathan is described as breathing fire like a dragon, and that the crocodile does not seem to fit the descriptions of Leviathan given in other Bible passages, e.g. it does not have multiple heads. Perhaps when the crocdile opens it's mouth wide it appeared as two.

Others suggest the Leviathan is an exaggerated account of a whale. This view faces some difficulty, however, as early Jewish people in the Near East would not have likely encountered whales in such a warm region. Yet perhaps it was one the ventured a long way in.

One theory would suggest giant squid. Often shaped much like these. Or an octopus.

Other theories, often cited by cryptozoology and creation science, is that Leviathan was an aquatic reptile, such as a Plesiosaurus, or a member of the Hadrosaur family - specifically the Parasaurolophus. The theory about the Parasaurolophus is intriguing and different than others presented because it attempts to explain the Biblical prose regarding fire breath. Essentially, the idea is through a chemical reaction similar to one that occurs in the Bombardier beetle, a Parasaurolphus combines elements located in different parts of its crest to create a combustible gas. However, the theory fails to take two crucial points into account in that the heated compounds would have scorched and severely injured the throat and nasal passages of Parasaurolophus, and that skulls of Parasaurolophus have no suggestion of having glands that could produce heated compounds in the first place.

Other people who have campgned for crationism to be tied into sceintific evidence for the disocvery of dinosaur species have put forward numerous dinosaur species as being in the era of the great man. Some say a kronosaurus.

Some conspiracy theorists suggest that Leviathon is a merely a sea dragon.

During sea faring's Golden Age, European sailors saw Leviathan as a gigantic whale like sea monster, usually a sea serpent, that devoured whole ships by swimming around vessels so quickly as to create a whirlpool. This was before they knew of meteorological conditions creating such storms.

It is often compared to the Loch Ness Monster
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Re: The Existence Of Mythical Creatures

Postby BMF » May 17th, 2011, 8:25:22 pm

There is proof that Jackalopes exist,theres a disease when Jack Rabbits get rabee's and grow horns but people exagerate that as they don't get real big. So I think why the Jackalope legend came along is cause its very rare to see a Jack Rabbit with this disease so not many people are aware of it.

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Re: The Existence Of Mythical Creatures

Postby Riverfox » May 18th, 2011, 12:45:32 am

Dawn wrote:Well, in my opinion, it's really real until proven unreal. So basically, there may be mythical creatures out there, but we might not have discovered them. I mean, we've only gotten sightings of creatures that may not be real (like Bigfoot, etc), but who's to say that they're not out there?


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Re: The Existence Of Mythical Creatures

Postby HobbitFeet » May 19th, 2011, 5:31:36 am

Mythological? No. Are there still species out there that have not been discovered? I bet. I'm the type of person that needs to have things worked on from the bottom up. At the bottom, there is a metaphorical "nothing." We've systematically filled this "nothing" with knowledge and quantifiable proofs. If there's no proof and absolutely no good argument that can convince me otherwise, then I'm likely to call it a myth or a theory, but in my mind, I don't believe in it. This can be considered something like a "Burden of Proof" angle. From where I stand, in the "nothing" space that was filled with knowledge, it is on the shoulders of those making claims to such creatures to prove that they exist. Does this make any sense? I'm not very logical at 5 in the morning...

I didn't get to go into details about this back when there was a "do you believe in dragon's" thread in the Popsicle stand. I basically stated the same thing in less coherent posts.... and somehow the conversation turned into something else completely. It was a mess and I think I argued with a girl who felt I was being ignorant because I didn't believe in dragons. Bah.

Goodbye Valenth feeding thread )':
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Re: The Existence Of Mythical Creatures

Postby xxavrilxx » May 20th, 2011, 9:32:45 pm

I really do think there could be unicorns and dragons out there. No one may have never seen some but if you think of it no one has ever proven there is not unicorns. I seriously do believe there are unicorns out there!
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